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James Bradley (Host): Hello, this is James Bradley. JB East in Asia, in Saigon, Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh City. It’s Thursday, May 25th, and JB West Jeff J. Brown is if you’re looking for him out there, in Normandy, he’s not there. He’s still in China. And he just called me. He said, let’s do the second half of this China report. Jeff Brown, where are you?
Jeff J Brown (Guest): In Shenzhen, across the border north of Hong Kong.
James: All right. We got a report from Shenzhen. And take it away. What’s going on? China. I heard of it. There are a few people living there. Let’s do a personal and then let’s do like a macro global country overview.
Jeff: Well, if we want to get into the personal. I have been to Shenzhen. I went to Zhuhai where I met Metallicman, an American journalist who is member of the China Writers’ Group (CWG). And then I went up to see Amir Khan in Changsha in Hunan, Mao Zedong’s home province, a Canadian professor at Hunan University which is very close to Wuhan, by the way.
And so, I’ve really gotten to see a little bit of the country. I forgot how solicitous the Chinese are, how helpful they are, how motherly they are and it can drive foreigners crazy because they’re very interjecting. If you’re doing something, they want to help you. And so, they kind of get in your face to help you. This really upsets a lot of foreigners because they’re really sucked into you know, me, myself, and I the Marlboro Man mentality that I’m going to do it myself. I learned years ago, just let them do it. They mean no harm. They’re not insulting me. They’re not telling me that I don’t know what I’m doing. They just want to help.
The honesty of the people is absolute on the daily street level. I have taken a number of pictures. I was walking in front of a pharmacy and the driver the delivery truck was inside the pharmacy checking off a checklist of all the medicine in the box.
He left the back doors of the van wide open, chockablock full of other boxes of medicine. China has antidepressants. China has codeine. China has painkillers. China has mood enhancers. China has all the Western drugs that we have. And could you imagine what would happen if that truck were in New York City or even Oklahoma City? It would be absolutely ransacked in minutes. Nobody here is locking their electric motorbikes. Half the people aren’t locking their bicycles.
My wife asked me to sell a little bit of gold that she has. So, I took it to a place and it was up on the third floor and I just take the elevator up to the third floor. The service window, the window is just a thin sheet of glass. There’s an opening of about 40 or 50cm under the glass where you hand people the gold. And I was sitting there watching this. There’s no guard, there’s no guns, there’s no security, there’s no metal detectors, there’s none of that. And I was standing there and I even took a picture of it. A guy was sitting there holding eight one-kilogram ingots of gold.
Jeff: I mean, that is what I don’t know how many. Maybe James can do the math. What a kilo of gold is worth? And then next to him was a guy with bags and bags and Ziploc bags and bags of gold. No one’s worried about it. No one is taking anything. And behind that ridiculously thin sheet of plexiglass is probably millions of dollars’ worth of gold. This is a gold dealer. The only thing that was stopping anybody from getting in behind where the workers were working, receiving, and selling gold was just a little lock code thing on the door.
And the door was made out of wood. I mean, that would be completely overrun with machine gun-toting animals in the West in a matter of minutes. And there are just so many other anecdotes that I can just give you, but those are just a few of them. Just on a personal level, the food is unbelievable. The food is very affordable just like in Vietnam, you can eat like a king or a queen for very little money if you’re willing to go to local restaurants.
I had roast duck for ¥23. That’s €3 or $3 for roast duck and an entire plate with vegetables and soup a slab of roast duck for $3. Soups cost $2. I found a swimming pool. The people are lovely. If you accept the way the Chinese are, they are somewhat like I say, interjecting. They’re always trying to help you if you just let them do it. And they love to laugh and they love to talk. And of course, I speak Chinese. And so, I get sort of extra care extra attention. On a personal note, the only people that I have found that are a little bit disgruntled are the Shenzhen taxi drivers.
They already had 70,000 drivers before COVID. And I avoided the metro so that I can be above ground. And I’ve been all over the city and the taxis they’re so cheap, it’s affordable. And they explained to me, I mean, I’ve met people from like up by the Russian border down here, Hunan down here, Anhui down here. Basically, their businesses, their businesses up there went belly up during COVID.
And so, I think the economic impact of COVID here is greater at least for the small and medium businesses than we might realize. But anyway, they were put out of business and so they no longer had jobs. And so, they’re going to Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, which is the capital of Canton, or Guangdong, Shenzhen, and other larger cities. And they’re going into the taxi business. And so, they rent a taxi for ¥10,000/month. They find a tiny room like I’m living in for 1,000 RMB a month. And they have just bloated the fleet of taxis in Shenzhen.
So business is really down. And I talked to one guy. He works 16 hours a day. He takes one day off. His wife cleans houses in Guangzhou. You know, a 30-minute high-speed rail train away comes over on the seventh day to keep the taxi going. I met another guy. And why are they down here? Well, they both got fired from a hotel up in the northeast. And they’ve got three kids in college back in Hunan. And so, they’re basically working 100-hour weeks, both of them, to get their three kids through college in Hunan.
They’re hard-working. When they rest, they rest. But when they work, they work hard, just like the Vietnamese. It’s a very typical sort of East Asian mentality. And they were complaining and grumbling. The business is not good. I only met one real grouch. I mean, one real grouch, a younger guy who was kind of had like a beatnik look. And he was mad at everybody. He was mad at the world. He was mad at his government. He was mad at his life as taxi driver. He was mad at his prospects.
And it was like I was talking to Victoria Nuland or John Bolton. I think he may have a VPN and get onto Voice of America or the Voice of Asia. He was really, that’s the one guy I’ve met who was just really bent out of shape and they were slaves. And he is really an outlier. They’re very Confucian here. They’re very Daoist here. They’re very Buddhist here. And this is my situation and I’m going to work my way through it. And they may grumble a little bit, but you don’t hear anybody wanting to commit suicide or start a crime wave.
They’re just working through it. I’ve met other people who are doing different jobs housekeepers, and masseuses. They’re down here and they’re down here because the pay is better than where they were. And these are all farmers. These are all people from farms. They’re struggling. They’re making 4,000 or 5,000 a month yuan. I mean, that’s like, I don’t know, $400 a month. I mean, it’s nothing. But they usually get a free apartment at that rate and lunch provided to them. But they’re barely scraping by.
But they’re saving enough money that they’re trying to get their kids through school, trying to get their kids through college. I met a masseuse. She’s down here with her daughter who’s going to college to get a degree in Web Design. And her husband is back up near the Korean border with her husband and their two younger sons. And that’s another thing that they do a lot here. There are a lot of separated couples because they have to in order to make the money, they need to realize their dreams.
And she told me that she’s making 5,000 yuan. Her daughter is making 4,000 working a night job as a security guard and then going to college during the day to get a degree in Web Design. And then she said, as soon as my daughter gets her degree, I’ll go back up to Liaoning, which is right next to Korea, North Korea, of course, and to be back with my two sons, 12 and eight years old. So, families here split up when they need to. Parents split up and share child care roles when they need to when it comes to, again, putting food on the table and paying the bills.
However, when you ask them of course they’re struggling here, it’s not easy. The cost of living is obviously much higher than in their rural area. But then you find out, well, they’re farmers. And so, in China, farmers, almost every farmer in China has a nice house now. So, this lady who’s struggling is sitting there saying, yeah. I said, well, tell me about your house up in Liaoning. And she said, oh, it’s 180m², which is 1,800 square feet. And she said that’s for my husband and my two sons live. And that’s where I’ll go back to when my daughter graduates.
And she says, we also have a little 30 square meter, a 300 foot like an efficiency house. And we rent that out. And, they have 1,300 square meters of land. So, every farmer has 1,300 square meters of land where they can grow vegetables and fruit and raise a pig and chickens. And so, it looks bad for them. And they are struggling here in the big city, Changsha was no different for the taxi drivers. But they go back home and even though they may live far away from a big city, they have a very nice life back home with a house.
Many of them have two houses like this lady from Liaoning. And so long term. I want to say if China goes to war with NATO. But I think it’s when. Those people can always go back to their hometowns and they’ve got a house and 1,300 square meters of farmland to grow vegetables and raised chickens and pigs. So, and it’s just like James always talks about when times get tough in Vietnam, in Vietnam, well, the people in the big cities, they go up into the mountains and the hills back into their villages where they can do more than just survive. They can actually lead a decent life.
So those are just some of my personal impressions. I would like to say that just on a personal level, Xi Jinping is an absolute rock star here. I mean, people love him. And I know this probably upsets Westerners because they can’t believe that anybody would love Xi Jinping. But if you had a leader like Xi Jinping, you would love him, too. I mean, he will go down in Chinese history as the Mao Zedong of the 21st century. And also, I heard nobody say anything bad about Mao. I would mention Mao to some people. And they just were like they didn’t care. But nobody was trashing Mao and Mao is very venerated here.
James: Jeff.
Jeff: Yeah. Yeah.
James: What about Xi? You said Xi is popular. Like what quotes do you have or why are people talking about Xi? About their shoes or about his deal with Russia? I mean, in what context have you had people talk about Xi?
Jeff: James, Xi has done something that even Mao couldn’t do. Mao had seven national campaigns against corruption, all during his reign from 1949 to 1976. None of them really ever worked. Well, yeah, it did work. The Cultural Revolution solved all the corruption. But he has done something that no other leader in modern China and even ancient China has been able to do, and that is he has crushed corruption here. He has absolutely crushed it. And I have talked to people here who say that they were able to do things before Xi Jinping.
They can’t do that now. He has gone after the casual corruption. He has gone after the big corruption. And, of course, it’s still there. But especially at the local level, you’re not going to get rid of all of it. But he has literally torn a new backside into big tech here. You know, Alibaba, Tencent, and WeChat, DiDi. the taxi hire company. All the big tech companies have been literally kneecapped by Xi Jinping and have been brought back down to earth.
They will never be Facebook, Instagram, Google, or Twitter basically controlling the Democratic Party and huge parts of the Deep state apparatus. He has gone after just everybody. And his social credit system is adored by people here, as I mentioned because it goes after the bad guys. It exposes them and there are consequences. So that’s why they love him. He has really cleaned up China, especially in the military. It was extremely corrupt before he came into office in 2012.
And he was an officer before he became president and his wife was an officer before becoming the first lady. They have and continue to use their moral authority to literally just wipe the People’s Liberation Army clean of corruption. And so, the buying and selling of generalships and the buying and selling off of division posts and all that and all the corruption with land deals and everything. That’s all gone now. And you can see it. I mean the economy is humming without corruption. They say a little bit can be sort of a lubricant.
But Xi has shown that if you have virtually no corruption, you don’t need that lubricant. The economy is just hopping and humping and moving and developing. And it’s already much bigger than the US economy and much bigger than the EU economy in purchasing power parity terms. And next year, I think it’s already now going to even surpass them in exchange rate terms. So that’s why he’s so popular.
James: So, if you’re listening to American media, a throwaway line is the BBC, FBI, and NSA surveillance. All they want is to make us like China. China is the worst-case scenario. They’re trying to make us like China with a social credit score. The people are completely controlled. We don’t want to be like China. I mean, that’s just a given in any channel of American media. Just a throwaway line that the credit score is a rope around the Chinese people’s necks and the government is using it to just whip the horses to pull the government chariot. Those poor Chinese people. So why such a divergence here and what would your comment on that be?
Jeff: Well, the thing is, is that this is deflective psychology or reflective psychology because it’s the West that has the panopticon totalitarian system. We know that Google and Facebook and Instagram and Twitter are vacuuming every piece, every iota of information on us being stored in massive computer towns and the deserts of Utah. We know that not only Americans’ information and Europeans’ information but everybody’s information around the world.
This is so difficult for Westerners to understand but China has the most consensual consultative democracy in the world, at least in terms of a big country. Every law is posted online. Back in the days of Mao, those laws were posted on village boards. People could look at the laws and then they would survey them. The government is the biggest surveyor in the world, and they did it back during Mao’s time when it was called the mass line.
What do the people think? And we need to respect the people. And it’s hard to believe that there’s actually a big government like China that actually listens to its citizens, not like ours. And so, this social credit system was demanded by the people because they were sick and tired of the 80s and 90s all the street-level criminality and all the distrust and the cheating and the scamming and the street crime and the burglaries.
And they were just sick of it because that was Deng Xiaoping’s era of street level capitalism and the country was not a nice place to live in and I know because we lived here for seven years in the 1990s so they demanded it. It has been modified. It has been amended. It has been added too based on the desires of the people. The people can go online, they can go into their local, they can go into their village or neighborhood government office and give their opinion about this.
The social credit score system is a creation of the people of China and it is all above board. It is all public. There’s nothing being hidden. And in fact, the people got so pissed off when they found out that Didi and Tencent, WeChat and Alibaba and JD.com, and all these massive, these massive tech companies were basically they were abusing their personal data just like they do in the United States. Of course, we have no control over it. They’re going to do it anyway.
But here there was such public outrage when they found out that they were abusing their personal information. They essentially shut down Didi for a year and a half. They arrested Jack Ma of Alibaba and made it essentially a state corporation. How do you want to say it? The state is on top of Alibaba. It’s not owned by the state, but there’s essentially a government official at Alibaba watching everything they do. Tencent, WeChat the world’s biggest video gaming company. Again, they were chopped down.
They were fined, heavily fined, and punished for sharing information, laws that the people were demanding were immediately passed to strictly, strictly control the use of their personal information, the use of their images from cameras and from ID photos and passport photos. That is all in place here in China. It’s not in place in the United States. We don’t know. Everything you put on Facebook, they own it. Everything you put on Instagram, they own it. Everything you put on Twitter, they own it.
Everything you put, Google is vacuuming everything. That’s not China. China has an open public security system. And the people have gotten what they wanted, which is an extremely short leash on big tech, and that includes Huawei and ZTE and China Mobile and China Unicom, and the other telephone companies. They’re all well, those are all state-owned. There are people-owned. The banks are on a short leash. The government here is not taking any chances with these entities, private or public, getting too big for their britches and becoming another Facebook or Twitter.
James: Okay. That’s cool. That’s cool. Then you said something interesting. You said when NATO fights China or when war with NATO comes. What do you mean by that?
Jeff: Everything I have come up with here in the last three weeks, of course, I was shut out of China for three years because the country was completely shut down for foreigners to get in except under extreme circumstances. And the Chinese couldn’t leave for three years. And these are foreigners who I’m talking to because the Chinese would be a little bit reluctant to talk about it. But the consensus is, is that the Chinese government, who I call Baba Beijing, knows they were attacked in Wuhan at the World Military Games in October of 2019 (https://chinarising.puntopress.com/search/?q=soy%20sauce).
And they used that biological weapon attack by the United States military during the World Military Games to launch a massive civil defense exercise. And so, that’s what happened here. And I talk to people, and it was a lot more brutal than I thought. I mean, it was tough, man. I was talking to people and what they had to go through, movements of people and stuff. And people not being able to leave, et cetera, especially in Shanghai.
I think they were trying a lot of different ways for civil defense, and I think they were using COVID as a way to prepare for the coming war with NATO. And I think that they know that and even the US is so is so arrogant. They’ve even alluded to it that they are developing gene marker bioweapons for Han Chinese people, Slavic, Russian people, et cetera. And they’ll use Taiwan, I think just to attack China and just like they’re using Ukraine to attack Russia. And I think though they know that this time it’s going to be a really serious biological weapon that has Chinese gene markers.
And of course, I’ve reported I did a whole expose on the fact that Harvard back in the 1990s illegally stole and collected (https://chinarising.puntopress.com/2020/02/25/harvard-illegally-collected-dna-samples-in-china-throughout-the-90s-right-up-to-sars-lies-upon-lies-and-many-cover-ups-have-kept-this-criminal-conduct-hidden-in-plain-sight-looks-like-bio-engineere/). They don’t even know it’s somewhere in the hundreds of thousands, maybe up to 2 million respiratory DNA samples from Chinese, from Han Chinese, their sinuses, their throats, and their bronchial tubes. And it could be up to 2 million. They don’t know how many. And those were all those who disappeared and likely ended up in Fort Detrick., which is the world’s biggest biological warfare production facility.
So, I think that they will be ready. And the three years here were tough. I mean I was talking to people but you know what? They never forced one person to get any vaccines. I know Chinese who didn’t get vaccinated. I know Westerners who didn’t get vaccinated. They never pushed anybody to get vaccinated. You were not required to do so. And so, when the United States does attack China with probably a gene-specific bioweapon, say, before, I think it’s going to happen maybe before 2025 generals are already talking about that.
US NATO generals are always talking about we need to be prepared by 2025. When they sequestered 58 million people around Wuhan and organized all that and made it happen immediately after the Military World Games. And they discovered COVID as it was spreading. They will be able to do that if needed for 1.5 billion people, citizens, to keep them from being wiped out by a much, much more dangerous, much, much more lethal bioweapon that the United States, I would say, likely is developing and will have ready for their war with China, because there is no other way that they can beat China in a hot war.
So, I think they’re going to try to do it. And probably Russia, too. I think they’ve already been caught getting Slavic DNA all across Russia, and the United States, through NGOs. So, I think that’s why. And so that civil defense exercise went on for three years. It caused a lot of hardship here. And again, I’ve talked to Chinese, and a lot of businesses went under thousands of businesses, small and medium-sized businesses went under. It was not a happy time for the Chinese.
But I think that the Baba Beijing knew they had to do it to practice and to find out what works, to keep the people from being wiped out by an upcoming bioweapon attack much, much worse than the Military World Games in Wuhan in 2019. So, I think that’s what’s going on. And it’s I think it’s bound to happen. And China will be ready. They’ve got three years of experience under their belt. Another thing I do want to point out is, is that I have talked to people.
And even though China’s vaccines are the good old fashioned attenuated virus the good old fashioned like the smallpox attenuated virus type vaccines, not the genetic modification, the gene therapy, the mRNA like in the West. But people here are saying that the health of the people is not as good as it was. So, it just goes to show you that no vaccine, no matter how safe you try to make it, it can be administered to a large population without there being some consequences.
People here are talking about what they call long COVID and people apparently there are a lot more cancers now here. They don’t have all the heart problems, the myocarditis and pericarditis and the heart attacks and the paralysis and all that. But apparently, most of the Chinese, I talk to you got a total of three shots. And also fatigue just the long COVID fatigue. So even China, with the best of intentions and knowing the classic vaccines, have apparently there are apparently some repercussions from vaccinating most of the population.
And I can tell you, James, how impactful COVID was. I have seen Westerners would call it propaganda. Of course, this is good propaganda. Not the propaganda in the West that is to demonize others and starts wars and gets people to hate each other. These are like public service announcements, but especially Shenzhen and then also Zhuhai and less so Changsha is literally blanketed with public service posters saying things like go see a psychologist or a psychiatrist, balance work and rest, be healthy, balanced, eating, respect standing in line, don’t spit on the ground, which hasn’t been a problem here for 20 years. Let transform (update) social traditions.
Take the pressure off yourself. Fine-tune yourself. Don’t use products harmful to health. Develop specialty item processes. In other words, do research and development, get exercise, communicate with others, and separate the garbage. This is like classic Confucianism and Daoism. And it’s absolutely you cannot turn your head in any direction without seeing one of these posters. So, I think they’re really trying to I would say protect and help each other, like old Confucians.
We take care of those who need our help, Confucian aphorisms and all kinds about how to be a good husband, how to be a good wife, how to be a good family, how to be a good worker, how to be a good society, how to be good at what to do at school. They also have the 12 Core Socialist Values and they’re just plastered everywhere. I’ve never seen a propaganda campaign like what I have seen in Shenzhen. It is really, really, really intense. And I think it just shows that they realize that the people did go through a lot during COVID. And now they’re helping the people to do what they need to do post-COVID, so to speak.
James: What about all the lockdowns and the people singing at night and we don’t have food and the films of the officials killing the dogs and dragging the people and locking up apartments? I mean, it was it looked pretty brutal. A lot of those lockdowns. And you say nobody was coerced to get a shot.
Jeff: Well, first off, it’s hard to know how many of those films that you saw are real. I mean, I know that Shanghai was really brutal. It was tough. And I think that was where they were pushing civil defense to its absolute maximum. It’s difficult to say. I mean, I have seen so many of these video clips and then they show later that, well, that’s not real. That actually happened in Burma in the 80s or Indonesia in the 90s or so. I don’t know. But I do know that it was tough and the government did everything it could to get food provided, et cetera.
But to be honest with you, with George Soros and USAID and NED and the CIA and the FBI and everybody that the Democratic Party apparatus that hates China or the Republican apparatus that hates China, it’s the Democrats that hate Russia. It’s difficult to see to know for sure whether those clips were legitimate or not. But I can tell you that that the people had a tough time and people did tell me towards the end there were people starting to protest.
And but unlike in the United States, I don’t know, the government here would not come out shooting and tear-gassing and all that. I mean, there were protests. They protested and they were listened to. But it’s funny at the same time, James, I think the people were so worried about a biological warfare attack that towards the end, national polls showed that 82% of the people wanted to keep the measures because they were so afraid of getting killed.
So, when you’ve been attacked by bioweapons since 1935 by the Japanese and then the Americans in Korea and China and in SARS in 2003 and then COVID from 2019 to 2023, plus multiple US attacks with swine fever, avian flu all across the country, wiping out the poultry and swine herds across the country. When you’ve endured that, you really look at things differently. But that’s all I can say. I saw some of those videos and they’re fuzzy.
There’s not a lot you can see. And the CIA has plenty of studios all around the world in Hong Kong, the CIA has hundreds of agents in Hong Kong. They’re in Taiwan. Unfortunately, they can make that stuff up. But anyway, it’s over now. People seem to have gotten over it and very, very few people wear a mask here except. Well, not many people are wearing masks anymore and people are getting on with their lives. And the government’s saying go see a psychiatrist. So, if you’re depressed or whatever, get some help.
James: So, why don’t we wrap it up, you’re going to sleep in Shenzhen tonight. And then when are you going to be back on the Atlantic Coast?
Jeff: I’ll be back on Sunday. I’m going to go to an international conference tomorrow in Hong Kong, which I wasn’t supposed to, which is not why I came here. Just I happen to know someone who is going to it, about Chinese labor. And he said, yeah, come along. So, I’m going to go to that tomorrow night and Saturday, and then I’ll leave Sunday. But I would like to close it out. I do want to bring up a couple of two or three other salient points.
And I know we’re over 40 minutes. But first, China has gone completely cashless. There is almost no money left in this country. It’s all electronic using WeChat and Alipay. I know Westerners are freaked out by the central bank digital currency, and they should be because their banks are evil and corrupt, and genocidal, whereas the banks here are owned by the people. So, the people here don’t fear the banks, nor do they fear 5G.
I mean, I’m sure 5G could be used for all kinds of evil purposes, but they’re not going to use it for evil purposes here. So, everybody’s gone cashless. The other thing that’s really just the continuing infrastructure just it’s everywhere. They’re just building and building. It’s just breathtaking. And metros and skyscrapers and highways and rail lines and it just nonstop airports and train stations and Metallicman in Zhuhai used the word when I interviewed him and he said that China is a colossus.
And I would like to close out our discussion today, James, accepting the fact that China is on a scale like nothing that the world has ever seen, the Western imperial powers got the best of China from the first Opium War until 1949. But for 5,000 years, China has been the giant of human civilization. And it’s back and antidote to Western imperialism and Western trying defeat it is communism and socialism. I know this really upsets people.
And Vietnam’s doing the same thing. But to see what a big, powerful country, a communist-socialist country like China is doing for their people and the prosperity that they are creating and the development and the civilization and the society and really working day and night to improve the lives of the people. They’re building millions of low-income apartments. They’re still doing it. And if the West is the Earth, then China is the rest of the solar system, including the Sun.
And it is just so beyond our scope. It is so beyond our imagination just how massively powerful and successful China is since 1949 and for much of the last 5,000 years. We need to accept it. And China is in a class all by itself. So, I’m looking forward to coming back in August and I’m going to come back in October and I’m going to try to come back every couple, every two or three months and go to different parts of the country and continue to be your eyes and the fans’ eyes and ears on the ground here in China. Thank you, James.
James: That’s really cool. Okay. We’ll leave it there. Unless you have something else. I mean, that’s a lot and very valuable insight. So good luck in Hong Kong. And then let’s do a final follow-up when you get back to the West and you can look at China from afar.
Jeff: Okay, yeah. I’m afraid almost to go back. I’m afraid I’m going to be so disappointed. But yeah, we’ll do one. It’ll be interesting.
James: Yeah. Let’s see what your impressions are after you leave and look at it from a distance.
Jeff: Thank you, James. You’re a great host.
James: Okay. JB West signing off to JB East this time. But really, JB West Jeff J. Brown.
Jeff: Bye-bye, James.
James: Thanks. Bye.
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