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Sixteen years on the streets, living and working with the people of China, Jeff

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Executive Summary

Quick recap

The group discussed the potential transition of humanity towards socialism, the philosophical differences between aristocratic and kakistocratic attitudes, and the current geopolitical situation. They also explored the economic models of Europe and China, the vision of Charles de Gaulle for France, and the impact of the Trump administration on the world. The conversation concluded with discussions on the historical context of American politics and foreign relations, personal backgrounds, concerns about Trump’s potential impact on the US and the global economy, and the current state of global politics and power dynamics.

Next steps

• Research and compile information on the implementation of the Palantir spy system and its potential implications for the North American technate.
• Investigate and analyze the current state of Socialist movements and parties in Western countries, particularly focusing on their decline since the post-WWII era.
• Gather more information on deep seek and other open-source AI projects, and share findings with Patrice and Jeff.
• Continue monitoring Trump’s policies and actions, particularly regarding Israel and the Middle East, to assess their impact on global geopolitics.
• Explore and document the historical connections between Wall Street, the CIA, and other intelligence agencies in shaping US foreign policy.
• Analyze the potential for a “retraction of the Empire” under Trump’s administration and its implications for global power dynamics.
• Discuss and evaluate the concept of aristocratic vs. kakistocratic leadership in modern politics in a future meeting.

Summary

Transition to Socialism and Open-Source Systems

Patrice and Jeff discussed the potential transition of humanity towards socialism, with Patrice expressing concern about the toxicities of the capitalist system and the need for a quicker transition to socialism. Quan added to the discussion, emphasizing the importance of open-source systems like DeepSick and the potential for these to accelerate the transition to socialism. Both Patrice and Quan expressed optimism about China’s progress in this direction. The conversation also touched on the potential for digital revolutions to accelerate the crisis of capitalism, leading to an implosion of the old system.

Philosophical Differences and Geopolitical Shifts

Quan discussed the philosophical differences between the aristocratic and kakistocratic attitudes, with the former being driven by playful exploration, inventiveness, and creativity, while the latter seeks to control and maintain a closed system. He also touched on the current geopolitical situation, suggesting that the world is witnessing a battle between the aristocratic West and the kakistocratic rest. Patrice agreed with Quan’s analysis, adding that the aristocratic sphere is not only healthy but also morally superior. They both observed that the current US administration, under Trump, is redefining the empire’s approach, moving towards a more traditional, crude imperialism. This shift, they predicted, would lead to increased resistance and contradictions both domestically and internationally.

Economic Models and Open-Source Systems

Jeff discussed the economic models of Europe after World War 2 and China’s current economic approach. He criticized the West’s shift towards privatization and the left’s compromise with private interests. He also compared the open-source system of deep seek with the closed system of chat GPT. Patrice agreed with Jeff’s points and Quan added that China’s resource centers and industries are modeled after France’s “beauté industrielle” concept, which has been destroyed by plutocrats in France.

Charles De Gaulle’s Vision and Impact

Jeff, Patrice, and Quan discussed the vision of Charles de Gaulle for France, emphasizing his commitment to making France a nuclear power and his uncorruptible nature. They also touched on the importance of education systems, with France’s being particularly praised. The conversation then shifted to the impact of the Trump administration on the world, with Quan introducing the concept of the North American technate and its potential implications. The group also critiqued the current state of Western leadership, comparing it unfavorably to the leadership of Charles de Gaulle and other notable figures. They concluded by expressing their frustration with the current state of affairs, particularly in relation to the European Union and the dictatorship of Ursula von der Leyen.

Post-War Political and Social Changes

Patrice discussed the post-war period’s political and social changes, emphasizing the role of the CIA in subverting socialist gains. He highlighted the establishment of the social democratic model in Western Europe, particularly in Scandinavia, as a response to the Soviet model. Patrice also discussed the collapse of Western European communist parties, attributing it to Khrushchev’s revisionist policies against Stalin. He stressed that socialism exists when there is central planning for the benefit of the majority, not just through public institutions. Quan and Jeff agreed, adding that similar socialist programs were implemented in the United States during the Great Depression and World War II, but universal healthcare was not adopted due to the power of the American Medical Association.

World War II, FDR, Truman, CIA, Israel

Patrice, Jeff, and Quan discuss the historical context of American politics and foreign relations during and after World War II. They argue that FDR’s death marked a significant shift in US policy, with Truman representing opposing forces and creating the CIA at Wall Street’s urging. The group also explores the psychological aspects of leadership, comparing FDR’s aristocratic background to Truman’s more humble origins and how this influenced their decision-making. Jeff said that the British assassinated FDR, citing research on British presenence in the White House. The conversation concludes with a discussion of the creation of Israel and the influence of various global powers in that process.

Personal Backgrounds and CIA Discussion

In the meeting, Patrice, Jeff, and Quan discussed their personal backgrounds and experiences. Quan shared that he grew up in Hong Kong and later moved to Montreal, Canada, where he attended medical school in French. The conversation then shifted to the topic of the CIA and other intelligence agencies, with Patrice and Jeff discussing the origins and implications of these organizations. They also touched on the potential for repressive measures in the United States, drawing parallels with the actions taken in Europe. The conversation ended with a sense of intrigue and anticipation for future developments.

Trump’s Impact on USA and Economy

Quan expressed concerns about Trump’s potential impact on the US and the global economy. He suggested that Trump, as a small plutocrat, would likely prioritize the interests of the higher plutocrats over those of the American people. Quan also predicted that Trump would allow the implementation of Peter Thiel’s spy system, Palantir, which would be the first step towards the North American technator, a potentially fascist tech structure. Jeff agreed with Quan’s assessment, describing Trump as a demagogue and a charlatan. He also suggested that Trump’s actions would be limited by the power of China, which he described as too big, powerful, and savvy.

Jeff’s Pessimistic Views on Palestine

Jeff expressed his pessimistic views on the future of Palestine, predicting that Israel will annex the Golan Heights, West Bank and possibly Northern Gaza. He attributed this to the influence of Miriam Adelson on Trump, whom he believes will support Israel to the fullest extent. Jeff also criticized Trump’s handling of the COVID-19 pandemic and his support for the development of custom mRNA vaccines. Quan and Patrice agreed with Jeff’s assessment, noting that Trump’s actions were driven by his desire to appeal to his base and to benefit the true plutocrats.

Global Politics and Power Dynamics

Jeff, Patrice, and Quan discuss the current state of global politics and power dynamics. They express concern about the influence of powerful elites and plutocrats on governments, particularly in the United States. The group compares the American empire to historical empires and predicts its eventual decline. They discuss the challenges facing the current system, including issues of legitimacy and the potential for increased repression. The conversation also touches on the rise of alternative power centers like BRICS and the limitations of current Western leadership.

Transcript

Jeff: Hi, Patrice.

Patrice: Hi, Jeff. How are you?

Jeff: How are you doing?

Patrice: Fine.

Jeff: It’s really, really amazing. Zoom does an incredible job generating a summary, a quick recap with artificial intelligence. I mean, it’s very mainstream in what it leaves. It censors a lot of stuff.

Patrice: Amazing, yeah.

Jeff: But it still does a really nice summary if someone doesn’t have the time to read the entire transcript.

Patrice: Very useful. Yes, I tell you the topic that you have is a zeitgeist, I think, right?

Jeff: Yeah, with Trump being in office for one week.

Patrice: I understand that very well. The zeitgeist of Trump and all that. And can you hear me well?

Jeff: Oh, yeah, yeah, very well. You have a nice backdrop. I like your backdrop.

Patrice: Yeah, it’s virtual.

Jeff: Yeah, it looks cool.

Patrice: I have a mess in the real background. Because I’m trying to set this office, you know, the way it should be. Anyway, yeah, so, you know, I was wondering if I could add an extra topic.

Jeff: Sure.

Patrice: What concerns me is this is like another topic what happens is that I often think about the direction of humanity today. I mean, we know where the West is going. And the worst is as long as the United States is in command and those people who own the United States remain in command we know where it’s going to go with variations because adjustments. Trump represents an adjustment to the main approach until Biden, you know, which was all out-imperialism blah, blah.

But what concerns me is essentially the direction of humanity in terms of its transition, eventual transition to socialism because right now we exist in BRICS countries, particularly Russia and China which are obviously the default leaders of BRICS and therefore the alternative for humanity. We exist in a world of mixed economy in which the capital sectors continue to be very important. Now, I understand why it is happening historically.

But I think we should post around a few thoughts about this because we know that capitalism sooner or later begins to create more and more toxicities, problems that cannot be resolved by its own logic. So, if you give capitalism too much space and too much importance, it creates eventually a situation that not only delays the transition to proper socialism but it actually defeats it.

It delays it by breaking down all the shall we say, dynamics that would lead the society to socialism. Now, because we live in a transition when we have a very narrow window because of the environmental parameters that exist within our time, I think that the transition to socialism should be carefully watched and accelerated as much as possible without being imprudent about it.

And I don’t see it right now in a default organic sense, we see that there is a sort of a drift towards socialism because is the only healthy or logical let’s say direction in which society can go at this point, China, for example, has made a lot of progress in that sense. Russia is still dragging its feet. There’s a powerful capital sector. I hope that Putin will see the light. But these are topics that need to be discussed you know I mean.

Jeff: All right, so the question I have developed based on your comments, Patrice is with capitalism collapsing everywhere, is there any hope for the rest of the world to consider socialism?

Patrice: Yeah, well, capitalism is collapsing. Let me put it that way. I think that the existence of capitalism today as the existence of imperialism, Western imperialism.

Jeff: Okay.

Patrice: The death of imperialism, American imperialism, shall we say, it over announced. In other words, many people on the left say it’s on its last leg and this deathbed and all that. But speaking historically, the time that it can take for this damn system to finally disappear.

Jeff: Well, it could be decades.

Patrice: Decades, many decades. It would be another century before this country really releases its grip on humanity. And in the meantime, people trying to build an alternative world that will perforce, pathological will have to be socialists, mainly socialists. It can have some NEP type of let’s say patches there to do this or that to achieve this or that I said, you see even in Cuba today or Vietnam, it’s full of capitalist islands. But essentially, I think that yeah, say what you want to say.

Jeff: Hey, Quan, how are you doing?

Quan: How are you? How are you?

Jeff: I’m doing fine. The Eastern Standard Time zone is in full force this morning.

Quan: Okay, cool.

Jeff: We’ve got Patrice in New York and Quan in Montreal. And actually, Magnus Kjærgaard, our visual editor, said he was going to join us.

Quan: Oh, wonderful.

Patrice: Okay.

Jeff: Which will bring some youth to the crowd. So, Patrice just had a wonderful question. He said that you know, he would like to add some kind of a question about since Western imperialism and capitalism is everywhere and it could take decades or a century for it to finally collapse, is there any hope for the rest of the world to consider socialism sooner than later? So, I think that’s a good topic to bring up. Do you have anything you’d like to talk about, Quan?

Quan: Well, I think that what I would like to talk about is a little bit in the same direction that Patrice because it’s right that the old system is still there. So, the brightest way to avoid a direct war with the own system and with the Kakistocrats is precisely to build another one just beside them. I want to talk about Deep Seek because Deep Seek is precisely a brilliant example of how to build a system that is open source and truly open source and not fake open source like ChatGPT and offering it to all mankind.

Previously you have ChatGPT and their Stargate project that now is probably in shambles because they would not be capable to get the profits that they were expecting from their future victims since you have a Deep Seek that is operational right now. And you know that Deep Seek is the construction of guys whose day job was quantitative easy not easing but quantitative analysis.

And they built Deep Seek as a hobby. And they offer it to all mankind for free and that is why I call it an aristocratic attitude. And the more you have that kind of aristocratic man offering free stuff for all mankind, but not free stuff in the sense of breadth and circus, but free stuff in the sense of epistemological growth and development of their mind lies with Deep Seek.

Well, let’s say the free word okay because you know perfectly that with the KFC as IL, there speech is always Orwellian. They call themselves the free world, but they are not the free world. We are the free world. So, the true free world will grow step by step. And at a certain threshold, they will not have a choice that either to stay in their little corner or to join us. But it will take, as I said last time probably the time of the next three generations.

Patrice: Right, right, right. Yeah, in that sense, I envision something I am very encouraged by what you say, Quan. As a matter of fact, I would appreciate it if you would guide me later on to more materials on this particular topic because I don’t know much about it. I am particularly concerned, not concerned but actually both salivatory and concerned about what the acceleration of human productivity through the addition of more and more digital routines to the labor process is going to accelerate the crisis of capitalism wherever capitalism is being practiced, it’s capitalism.

So, you know, in other words, it will create organic pressures and they’re in a system. So, the sector that is capitalist in China, for example, will also have an attrition in terms of labor inputs. Because as you put more and more digital inputs into that label process and what do you call the production function, you’re going to see that the requirements for human labor become less and less, in which case organically, the emergence of a socialist mode of production begins to appear you know organically.

In that, I think China is way ahead, way ahead. And I am more than celebratory about that I think considering what China has accomplished, what China today represents on a broad front of human progress the very broad front I think there’s nothing comparable. Nothing comparable. On a second tier close to it or approaching it, you know, you find other nations, Russia, you know, so on and so forth.

But the United States is falling way behind the rest of the West, deservedly so because it has all the toxicities of the old system with none of the possible solutions. So, there is an organic drift that humanity will eventually follow in the old framework of reference that Churchill. Churchill said about the United States, the United States always does the right thing after trying everything else. I mean, even that war criminal despicable son of a bitch was capable of sophisticated thinking, as you know.

So, in our case, I see the drift of humanity led, of course, by the more conscious socialist leadership, accelerating more and more in its transition to the socialist path. But in the, shall we say, reactionary West, in the old-fashioned West, in the imperialist West with all the toxicity, you will see this implosion because the fundamental forms of social interaction will be collapsing because of the digital revolution, instead of actually accelerating the profits and all that which does in the very short term, it will be killing the system in the medium to longer term.

Quan: Absolutely. I would say that I think that the core answer is not in technical evolution in the sense that we have technical evolutions for sure and I’m not against technical evolution on the country. But the core answer is in the epistemological growth meaning that once again, you were alluding to the Republic by Plato in our last conversation.

Patrice: Yes.

Quan: The battle right now is between the kakistocratic man of the West and the aristocratic man of the rest. They call us in a disdainful manner the rest but frankly, from a philosophical perspective, they are the rest. We are the aristocratic man. They are the kakistocratic man. In the sense that once again, I’m coming back to ChatGPT and a Deep Seek. The attitude that they had, meaning trying to keep the knowledge within a very close circle and making people pay $200 a month for accessing their services contrary to the attitude of the Chinese guy who offered it for free and it is the perfect illustration of an aristocratic behavior.

Meaning people who are driven by playful exploration by the motivation for infantivity, for discovery, for creativity as opposed to the kakistocratic attitude which is precisely to keep staff in a closed system and to control the order through that closed system. And the people of the world, they are not dumb. They see who are the gentlemen and who are the predators. It won’t take time because people were afraid, of course. And it’s absolutely normal to be afraid because if you displease local kakistocratic, they wouldn’t bomb your cities, they wouldn’t bomb your villages.

And if you look at what is happening in the Gaza Strip, I understand that most people are afraid. It’s not all nations China, Russia, and Iran having hypersonic and atomic bombs. So, we won’t have to go step by step. It’s in the vertebral and we won’t to intimidate the kakistocrat to a certain extent so they would not do something too stupid. And if you look at what Trump is doing right now, I would say that the best we can do is to do nothing because they are stupid enough to take ridiculous decisions that would make everyone detest them even the closest allies.

Patrice: You’re right. I agree with you 100%. And I think that what you refer to as the aristocratic sphere of humanity versus the kakistocratic sphere. Kakistocratic sphere is not only healthy in the ways in which you described, it’s very encouraging to see that. It is also morally superior by definition. It doesn’t have to claim it. It is morally superior because instead of being grounded in selfishness, which is the essence, the oxygen of capitalism in which every single interaction in humanity is basically projected on the basis of selfishness, exploitation, manipulation, and therefore mendacity, none of those things apply in the model that you described.

The Aristocratic model is the true Aristotelian and the Socratic model doesn’t use any of those things. None of those parameters are even present there because it is predicated on a different assumption of a higher moral virtue that therefore automatically benefits people and reduces the friction in society. So, you know, now in the case of Trump, as you mentioned it and I’m glad you brought it up. I see it very clearly and I’m probably maybe you will may agree with me and my colleague Jeff also.

I see that there is a retraction of empire. Contrary to what many people are assuming this guy is very brutal in his expressions of American imperialism, which he is in style but his bark is a lot more intimidating than his actual bite. And what happens with him is that in part, his clumsiness and stupidity, as well as that of his gang of people who advised him or tried to do things, is basically already accelerating the contributions of the empire and bringing it to its knees.

But there’s also the fact that I got to say, the empire has reached a point in which some sectors of the ruling class are beginning to intuit because the ruling class in the United States has been enveloping hubris for so long that their natural intelligence such as it is, and may have existed at some point, has been stunted, is a dumbed-down ruling class. And they are beginning to intuit. And you see this evolution in the way they have denied the reality of the Ukraine war, the reality of this.

They deny reality for as long as they can. But eventually, objective reality imposes itself. And what you’re seeing today is a retraction of the old imperial system as predicated by Biden which goes all the way back to the Sail Neocon Model of exercise and imperialism in this cancerous way all over the place without it and then pursuing you know the war with China provoking Russia, provoking Iran, etc., etc. And the term you see already the prefigurement of a retraction of that approach and a return to the 19th century, Modus operandi of empires’ spheres of influence.

Quan: Yes.

Patrice: So, what Trump is predicting basically is a return to an old-fashioned shall we say crude imperialism which is visible to all, which will be resisted by men eventually because he’ll step on so many shoes and so many feet that it will be like a widespread revulsion and eventually resistance including the United States. And the contradictions at home will accelerate because he will be offering no real solutions to the class struggle and the tensions and dynamics of the class struggle at home. So, sphere of influence. This is what it’s up.

Jeff: I would like to point out that after World War II, Europe was very socialist. West of France, Germany, and Britain – they were very, very socialist. The productive forces, the airlines, the steel companies, the telephone companies, the utilities, the roads, the ports, the airports were all people and they applied what Charles de Gaulle called the dirigiste form of economy. Well, that’s exactly what China is doing. It’s just what China is doing.

The government is there. They’re on top of it. They’re allocating resources. They’re trying to maximize the benefit for the working class and the white-collar class but obviously the privateers hated that and detested that because they could not extract rent from Air France, rent from Deutsche Telecom, rent from all of these social from Spanish steel company or fiat you know the car manufacturer or whatever in Italy. And so, the models there. But unfortunately, and it’s no coincidence. And I’m sure Quan being Francophone will know this that the 30 years after 1945 in France were called the Golden 30.

Patrice: Yeah.

Jeff: And they were called the Golden 30 because that was when they had this dirigiste socialist, not command like in the Soviet Union or in the Mao Zedong era, which was a huge success but it was also a huge success in the Soviet Union with Stalin.

Patrice: Absolutely was.

Jeff: But it doesn’t have to be that way. It can be like Europe after World War II. But then, of course, just like in the West, you know, starting in the 1980s, they don’t want just a little bit. They want it all. They want to privatize everything. They want to privatize the air we breathe, they want to privatize our pee, our poop, they want to privatize ambulances and police if they could like they used to back in the 19th century.

And so, it’s there, but it’s just been hijacked. And then the left in Europe and, well, the left in the United States doesn’t even exist anymore. But the left in Europe has also been triangulated, has also been gentrified and is completely mainstream, you know, were in bed with these privateers and they’ve been totally compromised.

Patrice: The fake left.

Jeff: Yeah, he fake lift, the cardboard left. So, I don’t know. So, no one can say that the West does not have a working model. It’s just they betrayed it and they didn’t fight for it. And so anyway, I just want to make that comment. Also, I liked your all’s comments about the fact that you know Deep Seek is an open-source system and that ChatGPT is a closed system. I immediately thought of the idea that, well, in capitalism, monopolies. Capitalism really only functions well for the aristocratic elites if it’s a monopoly. And that’s what we have now. We have basically two or three companies that control everything in every sector.

Patrice: In every sector, yeah.

Jeff: And so, monopoly is like a closed system. It’s like a closed system. And with a socialist infrastructure like in China and I think Russia is a lot more socialist than we realize. And Iran is socialist, very, very socialist. And so, I think with socialism and a benign noble aristocratic government can allocate an open system to the have-nots so that they can also participate. That’s all I wanted to say.

Quan: Yeah, absolutely. I want to say, Jeff, because I like the French civilization. I want to give a little tribute to France because what is happening now, what is happening now in China, for example, in Shanghai, you have the combination of resource centers and of industry on the same place for example, for artificial intelligence or for robotics in Shanghai. Well, the model was strange because in France is what’s called bureaux d’études.

And those bureaux d’études were maybe the engines for the development of electricity de France, for example, ODF, all the major companies of France. So, the idea that the thinkers, the researchers, the inventors would be at the same place than the workers and the industrial development was excellent. And you know perfectly that the kakistocrats and the plutocrats’ step by step destroy all the bureaux d’étude??? in France with the idea to get those companies for peanuts and that’s what they managed to do in the last 40, 50 years.

Jeff: Absolutely. And it was Charles de Gaulle who had that vision. I mean he was a dower, aristocratic, but he was a good aristocrat. He was deeply roman catholic, a family man. In fact, they called him “the marble penis”, “la bit de marbre” because they tried so many honey pots to try to get him to compromise him and blackmail him. So, they sent him all these gorgeous women and he stayed faithful to his wife until his last breath. And so, he was extremely, and I think this is another thing.

I think this is another element that we need to consider, although Quan has pointed out that imperial China had a lot of corruption. But they got over it because of this Confucian Daoist Buddhist umbrella that I think, you know, reined in some of the excesses of the corruption. But, you know, Napoleon was uncorruptible. De Gaulle was uncorruptible. And I think, and Mao was uncorruptible. Xi is uncorruptible.

Patrice: Zhou Enlai was also.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Zhou Enlai. I think Ho Chi Min, Kim Il-Sung – these great leaders Castro these great leaders, they were uncorruptible. And I think that’s another aspect we need to consider. But it was Charles de Gaulle’s vision to make France a nuclear power, to make France a nuclear power militarily and civilian wise with EDF. And it was his dirigiste, I’m getting my French and English mixed up, Dirigiste vision that he imposed on France and that dirigiste vision also included these research centers and these technology schools.

And France, after World War II, had one of the greatest education systems in the world. It was unbelievably good. And it was meritocratic, just like in China and, you know, you didn’t go to university unless you passed a test to prove that you were intelligent enough not to waste the professor’s time. And all of that has just been sold down the river by the city of London, Wall Street, the CAC 40 which is the Wall Street of France. And it’s all gone now. The educational system is in shambles.

France is an example of the rest of the West, including the United States, on a smaller scale. The France is not manufacturing anything anymore, you know, except the three car companies. They’ve sold everything else off. We’ve got to get back to that Euro-socialist model for the West. I don’t ever expect the West to a Mao era, you know, communist socialist system, which was incredibly successful. But that’s not going to work. It’s not even working for Vietnam and China now. The only country that really comes closest to the Mao model, of course, is the DPRK, North Korea, and they’re doing great.

Patrice: Yeah, that’s right there.

Jeff: I mean they’re doing incredibly well. Iran has a mixed model like private-public. And it’s just the West that become so neo-liberalized and so privatized that it’s destroying the 99%.

Patrice: Yeah, the inflows. Go ahead.

Quan: I would like to introduce one thing concerning Trump because our subject today is how the Trump administration will impact the world if I’m not mistaken. So, do you know what is called the North American technate? And North American technate sounds a little bit conspiracy theory, but it is the case in the sense that it has been prepared for a long time and the presence of Elon Musk in the Trump administration with probably the Palantir spy system that will be implemented at the first step won’t be let’s say the preliminary step to the creation of that North American technate.

And when Trump is making his clownish behavior saying that he wants to annex Canada and to invade Mexico, for example, it looks a little bit laughable for us but if you know deep history, it’s not laughable. Because with the Palantir spy system from Peter Theil and Elon Musk proposing that the framework of North American technate be informed that it is the first step to the creation of the broader society in North America. And by North America, I mean Canada, the US, Mexico, and maybe a little bit of Colombia.

And of course, the rest of Latin America won’t be as usual the vassal states with the most grotesque example is, of course, Argentina. Because that guy Malay is simply destroying his country. And you know that his advisor is supposedly the spirit of his dead dog that he communicates with channeling to show to what extent the oligarchy is choosing absolutely the generate people to be their mouthpieces.

Patrice: Yeah, yeah.

Jeff: Well, look at Trudeau, look at McCall, look at Starmer, look at Scholz.

Patrice: Oh, my God, yeah.

Jeff: At least Meloni and Italy has a brain. And Macron is a smart guy too, but he’s a Rothschild’s Pygmalion. But yeah, I’ve been saying that, you know, starting in the 1980s, the Western leadership. Well, Jacques Chirac was a good president.

Patrice: Jacques Chirac was a nationalist.

Jeff: He was a nationalist and a patriot. Nixon is a much maligned, but he was the last U.S. President that tried to be presidential and they kicked him out. And of course, they blew John F. Kennedy’s brains out. But since then, these guys outside of, and after Charles de Gaulle, I mean, Chirac was okay. But then after Chirac, you know, Sarkozy and Hollande and Macron are just like, you know.

Patrice: It was all a downfall. You know.

Jeff: It’s just Rothschild Administration 123. And so, I called him dwarves. I call these leaders dwarves because that’s exactly what they are. They’re not even really human. They’re just disgusting sock puppets. And Ursula von der Leyen, I mean, she’s a dictator. She’s a totalitarian tyrannical dictator. And she gets away with signing a $71 billion contract with Pfizer because her husband works for a sub-company of Pfizer. I mean, it’s just it’s so bad. It’s so bad.

Patrice: Mind-boggling.

Jeff: Patrice, you wanted to say something?

Patrice: I just wanted to go back for a moment to the frame working which the rolling back of socialist gains, political gains in the post-war period. As you know, it didn’t take place in a vacuum. It was, of course, accelerated and energized by the CIA, which had just been created. And you saw the CIA put its stamp already the first subversion that they carried out was in Italy in the 1948 election, I think or 47. CIA was going in 1947. And they basically swung that election against the communists.

And that was the first kind of coup that was you know submerged. And what we need to keep in mind this why there was this social democratic wave that established itself in the immediate post-war in Europe and created this high standard of living, relatively speaking, this labor aristocracy and so forth in Western Europe and why was that actually implemented by the ruling classes of the West? And the obvious answer is that the Soviet model was there giving everybody chills in the Western ruling circles.

We have to basically put something up for the workers or else we’re going to have a real revolution here. So, they came up with all these social democratic measures, a welfare capitalist state and so on and so forth. Now, this is no accident that the Scandinavians who lived next door to the Soviet Union were among the first to implement this extensive social democratic model.

But after the Soviet Union collapse and before that, the most, I would say serious blow against socialism in general was the killing of the communist parties of the West, the real communist parties. And that happened because Khrushchev came up with this revisionist shit against Stalin to all kinds of lies, the history of Soviet revisionism is basically atrocious. And created all these dynamics that allowed then all of these parties of the West, beginning with the Italian Communist Party, which was the largest communist party in the world at the time, believe it or not. And then the French

Jeff: Who?

Patrice: The Italians.

Jeff: Okay, has the largest communist party.

Patrice: The Italians Communist Party was numerically the largest Communist Party. It was larger in numbers than the Soviet Communist Party. So, the Italian Communist Party boom collapsed. Then you have eventually the French which was the one that resisted the longest because the Italians collapsed first with Uro Cabi Nismo and then they went to the Spaniards, elaboro Comismo and then from that the only communist party that was still standing was the French, which Quan probably knows quite a bit about it, and eventually the communist party of France also collapsed.

And after that, the actual idea of socialism implemented on the idea of a Central Bananasian System which answers the question, who is the government working for? For the working class, for the majority, or for these privileged minorities? Because that’s what defines socialism. Socialism is not defined by public institutions. There they say, if that were the case, then to have a public library would mean, oh, we have socialism. If our department that is public, oh, we have socialism. No, Socialism only exists when there is central planning, the government is in the hands of a group of people who plan everything for the benefit of the vast majority of people. And that is what happened. Don’t you agree?

Quan: Yeah, absolutely, because of the old hereditary families in Europe, you know that they are more solidarity in the upper class of those old families than in the different countries. I take a very clear example, during the second world war, the upper bourgeoisie of France prefer the Nazis to be the victors than to get the communists on their backs.

Patrice: Absolutely, yeah.

Quan: So, I think there’s a book by a French historian saying la défaite voulue” (PS-I was referring to the book *Le Choix de la Défaite : les élites françaises dans les années 30* (2010) by the French historian Annie Lacroix-Riz in which she gave an impeccable analysis that the French high bourgeoisie and owners (le haut patronat), in the 30s, chose Nazi Germany because the fascist model corresponded to their industrial needs and class dominance imperative). The desired defeat because they were almost welcoming the Nazis because the Nazis were getting writ for them of the communists at the time who were perceived as much more of a danger for them than the Nazis. Because after all, those people have family links. Many Nazis officers were of the upper nobility and were linked by family linked to the French aristocracy.

Patrice: Right, exactly. Exactly. It shows you once again that class Trump’s nationalism in many places. Class is one of the things that usually prevails because people don’t abandon their privileges very easily. They have to be forced to abandon them.

Jeff: I also want to point out that it’s not only just Europe that was forced to offer socialism to the people after the people after World War II in order to avoid a real communist socialist revolution and it wasn’t just Italy that the first elections were won by the communists that also happened in Britain and France.

Patrice: Right, right.

Jeff: There was really a red tide that had to be crushed. And of course, with the Gladio, you know, fascist armies that were left behind and Operation Paperclip and you know, the exodus of tens of thousands of Nazis were taken out of Germany to infect Western Europe and the United States and South America and also Canada. Who was that Christine Nyland or whatever her name is or her grandfather was a Nazi.

Patrice: Exactly.

Jeff: But FDR had to do the same thing. I mean, the Wall Street to save their necks. Had to let Roosevelt also offer a lot of socialist programs for the people in the 1930s after the rape of the economy that ended in 1929 with the collapse of wall street. And FDR, you know, again, he took that Dirigiste Model for the economy in the 1930s and up into World War II. And the only aspect of the European Socialist Program that the United States did not get was Universal health care.

And that was because of the power of the American Medical Association and the doctors who were against it. So that also happened. And also, Wall Street was enamored with Nazism. Henry Ford, and all they loved, in fact, Roosevelt had to tell them to quit working with Nazi Germany after the United States declared war because they were deeply embedded in the Nazi economy. And of course, Wall Street tried to assassinate Roosevelt in 1934 with a fascist coup. So, you know, the fear of communism in the West knows no bounds.

Patrice: Hold on a second, guys. One moment.

Jeff: He has got to take care of his cat.

Quan: Absolutely.

Patrice: Sorry, that’s my daughter.

Quan: No, that’s okay.

Patrice: I don’t have human children but I have animal children. For me, they’re the same. I love animals the way I love all helpless people and helpless beings you know and that’s it. In any case, you know, with Jeff and Quan, I can’t tell you how much I enjoy. I’m speaking here now selfishly, how much I enjoyed these discussions.

Jeff: I’m cold.

Patrice: I learned a great deal and I intend to I hope doing is impossible to have this as a regular thing. Quan is a… it’s a tremendous pressure of information.

Jeff: Sorry, I’m cold.

Patrice: It encourages me.

Jeff: I’m in Taiwan, but it’s cold.

Patrice: There you are. Okay. Yeah, what you were saying, you know, how the American Bourgeoisie, the ruling class of the aristocracy, the moral aristocracy of this country was so gung-ho for fascism. They enabled Franco among other things later on. They helped Mussolini. They helped, you know, Hitler, of course. But essentially, what else I’m going to say? Essentially, the FDR system, the FDR regime, or government was basically what saved capitalism from itself in the United States because capitalism came very close.

At that point, there was such a thing as a communist party in the United States. And it’s therefore not an accident that precisely with the death of FDR, the moment FDR died because FDR is even envisioned a United Nations that would be like the global government. But the death of FDR immediately introduced then the opposite number in terms of ideology and in terms of the ruling classes that controlled him. And that was Truman.

The moment that FDR died, Truman took over, and Truman represented exactly the opposite forces, created immediately a CIA which was at the urging of Wall Street. The CIA ever since it was created, it was created as this shall we say global antagonist a world revolution. It was created to stop the world revolution and it has then I must say an excellent job. They have committed every crime under the… It is unimaginable that is dirty and filthy and revolting they have done. No excuses, no apologies. And that system will remain in place until there is a true revolution in this country.

Quan: Absolutely.

Jeff: I just want to say the 10 people who started the CIA in the private sector and of course, you know

Patrice: Yeah, Wall Street, all of them.

Jeff: They were all Wall Street lawyers.

Patrice: Wall Street all of them.

Jeff: They were all Wall Street lawyers.

Patrice: The Dallas brothers and the Bushes are Wall Street.

Jeff: Go ahead, Quan.

Quan: Yeah. I wanted to go back with a psychological element and dimension. You know perfectly that Truman was the son of a grocer and there’s nothing wrong to be the son of a grocer. Don’t take me wrong. But the problem was that he had the mind of a grocer and he was deeply impressed by the nobleman called Winston Churchill.

And that nobleman, when he came to Fenton and Fulton, his native home to give the infamous Iron Curtain speech, he was completely mesmerized and he accepted Churchill’s plan to isolate Russia so that the British would be capable to manage to maintain their empire under the financial dimension, even if they lost their land-based empire, let’s say. So, here we are at the core of what I call oligarchical manipulations in the sense that Roseville was a kind of nobleman too.

If Roseville had not died on April 12, 1945, I think that the world would have been different because Roosevelt, the aristocrat, would not have been impressed by another aristocrat, Winston Churchill. But sadly, the US was managed by the son of a grocer. And once again, there’s nothing wrong to be the son of a grocer. But sadly, he had the mind of a grocer and he was impressed by a nobleman called Winston Churchill.

Patrice: Very good point.

Jeff: I tell you what, you talk about aristocratic manipulation. I’ve done the research. I’ve done quite a bit of research, and I guarantee you the Brits assassinated FDR. They poisoned him.

Quan: Yeah.

Jeff: They wanted him out. He told Churchill you cannot keep your British Empire. I mean, he wanted to include China and the Soviet Union and Europe. He really, you know, FDR had this vision of a benign capitalist system that would include, of course, China wasn’t communist then, but he really had a vision. And it meant the end of the British Empire.

And he told him that and it’s a long story but the British agent who was assigned to the White House was Roald Dahl. And the MI6 created a team of 12 ghost riders who wrote all of his children’s stories. And the one time that he wrote one article in a journal in Washington, D.C., he was the laughing stock of Washington, D.C. And he had carte blanche access to the White House. He could walk into the Oval Office whenever he felt like it.

And so, he was literally a termite an assassin in the White House and he is the model for James Bond because he fucked every female on two legs in Washington, D.C. He was a real, real seducer and handsome and suave. So, he killed. I don’t think he actually gave FDR the poison. He had a couple of underlings to do it but I mean, FDR was killed because he was just like Lincoln was killed by the Brits and McKinley was killed by the Brits. And the Brits are the biggest assassins in the world.

Patrice: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff: And once they got Henry Wallace out from being vice president, that was a pooch that the Democratic convention and they had their stooge sock puppet, Truman once they got him as VP, I mean, that was the end of FDR, man. They couldn’t wait to kill that guy.

Patrice: Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff: The FDR was too nice to the little people and too hard on Wall Street too.

Patrice: I think that what Quan was referring to as the aristocratic model by virtue of its intrinsic governing morality was personified in FDR. Not to mention that, as he mentioned the fact that Truman was this man from the bulldogs in America to put it that way, right? And impressed with all the sophistication, the grand monde represented by Churchill. And, you know, obviously, nothing good would follow because she was taken over by the traditions put it that way, right?

Has been essentially since then. In many ways what we might call the traditional model of inserting yourself like a parasite and taking over the larger body. The Brits have done a brilliant job. Later on, it was no accident that it was Truman who basically put his imprimatur in the creation of Israel. Although I might add, the Soviet Union was there at the moment of the birth of Israel too for its own reasons. It’s a very complicated thing but may I ask a personal question, Quan?

Quan: Yeah, sure, sure.

Patrice: Are you living now in France?

Quan: No, I’m living in Montreal Canada.

Jeff: You all are neighbors. You all are right across the border. You all should meet.

Patrice: Yeah, yeah. Because I’m in New York.

Quan: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. We’re quite close.

Patrice: I mean, we’re basically like seven or eight hours by car.

Quan: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Patrice: I used to go to Montreal. I think it’s a beautiful city.

Jeff: Oh, I love it. I love Montreal.

Patrice: A beautiful city and I tell you. Yeah, I was accepted by Mike Gill at one point for my doctoral blah, blah, blah. And then I didn’t do it there but it’s a beautiful city. I mean, it’s just stunning. I mean, Montreal, that entire La Vill Provence. This just says it all. It’s a beautiful place.

Jeff: Vive le Quebec, Charles Gaulle. Yes, Charles de Gaulle, Vive le Québec.

Quan: Oh, Libre Quebec

Jeff: Oh, Libre Quebec, yeah.

Patrice: The reason why I mentioned this is because if you’re in Montreal, you know how difficult it would be for the United States according to the Trumpian model, to absorb Canada because they have the French part of Canada. It would be very difficult to absorb. Absolutely not.

Quan: Yeah, absolutely. Because my wife is French-Canadian, I have to say that I have a weakness for French civilization and French-speaking people. Thanks, God, for Quebec in Canada because it’s increased tremendously the civilizational value of Canada because of Quebec.

Patrice: Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah. Well, you studied, you went to school to speak. You went to French schools, didn’t you, Quan?

Quan: My mother taught me French because she went to La Sorbonne for etude Francaise, Literature Francaise. But I spoke French when I was in Hong Kong with my British friends because I learned English only when I came to Canada later on. And with the British people in Hong Kong, I spoke French. Sometimes life can be very paradoxical.

Patrice: Yeah, yeah.

Jeff: So, you grew up in Hong Kong?

Quan: Yes, yes.

Jeff: Oh, I didn’t know that after all these years. So, you grew up, you and Peter Man. Another China Writers Group member grew up in Hong Kong. Did you go to Catholic schools like he did?

Quan: No, I had private schooling at home. I never went to the public system in Hong Kong.

Jeff: Okay.

Quan: And I came to Canada definitely after my marriage with my wife at 18.

Jeff: Oh, at 18, okay.

Quan: But I was in Canada sometime before 18 years old, but it was not definitive. It was definitive after 18 years old.

Patrice: You met your wife.

Jeff: Okay. But your mother taught you in French. Your mother taught you in French, right? French is your mother tongue.

Quan: Yeah. Yeah. If you can say so, I spoke Cantonese before I spoke French, but I started to speak French when I was maybe three, or four years old.

Jeff: Okay, got it. All right. All right. Really interesting.

Patrice: Yeah, absolutely. That’s why your accent is completely French, right?

Jeff: Do you still have your Hong Kong passport?

Quan: Well, my in-laws insisted that I get a Canadian passport so you know that China doesn’t accept double nationality. Because of that, I lost my Chinese passport, but I think that I can get it back if needed.

Jeff: Okay. All right. All right. Really interesting. I did not know that.

Patrice: That’s an interesting biographical idea.

Jeff: I thought you went to French schools in Quebec. I didn’t know that. That’s really interesting.

Quan: Well, I went to medical school in French in Montreal after that. But it was later on.

Jeff: Okay, gotcha. Well, come to Taiwan and Evelyn will cook you a wonderful, wonderful French meal.

Quan: Yeah, sure.

Patrice: It wasn’t Peter Man also born in Hong Kong and then he lived part of his life in Canada.

Jeff: Well, he is in Canada now. He’s in Vancouver. He’s also Canadian. He also immigrated from Hong Kong, just like Quan did. I did not know. That’s really interesting, Quan. I’m impressed. Wow. Unbelievable.

Patrice: Very, very interesting. Wonderful.

Quan: Yeah, that’s why… Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Patrice: No, no, no, no. So going back to what you were saying before you know the evolution, the impressionable Truman, and all the disasters that followed because not only did he create this malignancy called the CIA, she expanded other aspects of the then body neo-imperialist American system because Americans with an empire since the 10th century since the turn of the 20th century at least.

It had Megan’s Empire and the first land grab was against Mexico as you know. Practically one-third of the United States is Mexico, right? What used to be Mexico under the usual imperialistic pretext and this and that, that you aggress me blah, blah… we have to Vengeance and they invaded Mexico several times. But the malignancy that they created under Truman and then you have Truman, they’re dropping the bomb on the Japanese, you know, and never losing a sleep over that.

And that was cynical to the nth degree because you know and we know here that that was done to basically push back against the Soviets. They wanted to demonstrate to the Soviets we got this and you don’t have it and you better not even think of rolling over Europe. They were very afraid that the soy. They always project, right? They think that the things that they would do, the other guy is going to do it, right? In this case, the Soviets were going to take over with their armies and everything in all of Europe and the rest of the world over there. Okay, demonstration here we get the vom. Don’t do it.

Jeff: Don’t forget, we also need to point out that we say the CIA, but the British MI6 was created long before the CIA and Mossad were created in 1948 and its roots were already developed in what is today Palestine starting in 1917. So basically, if you say CIA, you say Mossad CIMI6. It’s just one big cabal spanning three continents. Well, Europe’s not really a continent. But Europe, The Middle East, and North America. DGSC, I think it is, and DMD in Germany. And then probably the Canadians and the Australians and the New Zealanders are probably like, you know, lower tier.

Patrice: Lower members of the club.

Jeff: Lower members, you know, the five eyes. But Mossad, CIA, and MI6 are just one gigantic blob.

Patrice: I think that the only qualification you can make about this notorious malignant club is basically the French member is not trusted by the others.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah. Well, especially with De Gaulle. Yeah, it’s very Anglo. It’s very Anglo.

Patrice: The Anglos don’t trust the French because several locations when the French members came out from the shadows and they published even books famous books, you know. There is a famous book by an ex-general who was a member of the different security services and he came out from the shadows and published this book. I don’t know the duty of speaking up and so like that and embarrassing the shit out of all this you know, CIA types in Europe, you know. In any case, yeah, we have, I think, people who are aware of what is going on in the world have more than their work cut out for them that includes us, obviously.

And the age of Trump will be a very interesting age because we’ll see what kind of measures. I might ask you to think and tell me what you think, obviously, about… I get the feeling a lot of the repressive measures that are being taken in Europe today like in Germany against free speech or in Britain even against holding you to jail and all that for right in the wrong things or whatever are being studied very carefully by the American ruling class today.

In other words, they’re using Europe as a lab to see you know what kind of pressures you can put on a population that has been fed the idea that they live in a democracy. And then, okay, this is what we need to do here because they’re afraid that if they do this repressive move too early, it might backfire. But if they studied it carefully according to the models that they see in Britain, in Germany, in France, et cetera, et cetera, they say, ah, this is the way to go.

Jeff: Quan, what do you think about Trump? Then I’ll give you my two cents worth, and then I think we ought to call it today. Tell us what you think, Quan.

Quan: Well, I would say that Trump will bring three major changes. I think, okay, first, let’s not forget that Trump is a plutocrat. Trump is a small plutocrat. We have to understand that. They are plutocrats who are much, much, much higher than him. He’s a small plutocrat trying to be accepted into the inner circle. But the paradox of Trump is being a small plutocrat, he’s also what I call a national imperialist country to the globalist imperialist. Those are the two main political characteristics of Trump.

But I make the hypothesis that the same Truman was mesmerized by the nobleman called Winston Churchill. The fact that Trump being a small plutocrat craving to be accepted by the higher plutocrats, he wouldn’t probably betray the American people a second time because he wants so much to be accepted into the inner circles. I gave a very clear example. He would make everything to increase the interest rates and to increase the value of the US dollar. Why? Because by doing so, he would benefit the higher plutocrats and his friend.

But for helping the American people for re-industrialization, he would have to decrease the value of the American dollar in order to restart industrialization. And I don’t think that he would do that. That’s the first thing that I think about Trump because of its inner contradiction as a small plutocrat willing to be accepted within the inner circle but at the same time, I think he’s sincere, okay? He wants to do something for the American people but he would not be capable to transcend his desire to be accepted within the inner circle.

So, he would do everything for his friends or for his bosses, the higher plutocrats. That’s one. For two, because the fact that he wouldn’t manage to make the money, the American money go higher, money won’t go back to the U.S. and the developing countries having to pay that debt in American dollars wouldn’t have problems. And maybe here China can do something because you know that China has a foreign reserve of 3,300 billion US dollars.

So maybe you know that China started to open a smile counter in Saudi Arabia dealing with USD, right? So, China maybe can land USD money to the countries needing USD to refund their debt label in USD. I would say that I don’t want to call that a trick, but that maneuver would have a lot of the developing countries without going into the very complicated process of the BRICS currency, okay? I think that the BRIC currency has a future.

But before that BRIC currency entered into circulation, we all know that it wouldn’t take time and all kinds of calculation before it becomes a true force for the global south. And the third is that Trump will probably sadly allow Peter Thiel to implement his spy system of Palantir which is sadly the first essential step for implementing the infamous North American technique. I don’t want to remind you that some days ago Elon Musk made twice a very clear Sieg Heil, okay? And that Seig Heil was a symbol of fascism.

Jeff: Oh, when he did the Seig Heil the arm signal. I see what you’re saying. All right. Yeah, he did that. Yeah, he did that.

Quan: Yes. Yes. And while you know that they are so smug and so hubristic and so sure of themselves that they don’t make even the small effort to hide it because the North American technique is a fascist technique structure that would probably be implemented in the next generation, which once again, I repeat myself the implementation of the Palantir spy system would be the first step. So, I think that would be Trump’s legacy. Maybe there are other things, but I would say that it would be the big things of Trump’s legacy.

Jeff: Okay. I’m probably going to be the most negative. I think that Trump is he’s a demagogue. He’s a populist. But I think he’s a charlatan. I think he means well, but I think he is no different than Johnson, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, you know. These people are, other than Nixon who tried to be kicked out, and JFK, who was murdered in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, I think these people have really little power.

I think that Trump will to satisfy his base, his World Economic Forum, technocrats will let him remove 20,000 soldiers from Germany and they’ll let him maybe talk to Kim in North Korea and he’ll talk to Putin and they’ll cut a deal. And Peter Thiel is the guru for Trump’s vice president. I mean, basically, he has been groomed by what’s his name Van I can’t think of his name right now.

Quan: J.D. Vance.

Jeff: Yeah, J.D. Vance. He is a Peter Thiel tool. And I’m sorry to say, but Trump is a Miriam Adelson tool. And I think that what’s going to happen is he’s going to, you know, the big joker, the big wild card is what is he going to do with China? But I think because I don’t think he has any good options. But because China is just too big too badass, too powerful and too savvy for Trump to do much. But I think Trump’s golden calf is Israel. And he will support Israel to the hilt. He and Netanyahu are simply basically Siamese twins.

In his first administration, he moved the U.S. Embassy to east Jerusalem, which was extremely symbolic. He was the one who got the Abraham Accords going and used Miriam Adelson’s hundreds of millions of dollars to bribe neighboring countries to recognize Israel diplomatically. And I’m going to make a brave statement, but I think it’s going to happen and nobody will be able to do anything about it and nobody will do anything about it. But Israel will annex the Golan Heights officially.

Israel will essentially start the annexation of Syria and they’ll duke it out to an Israeli puppet called Turkey to carve up Syria. And I think that what’s going to happen in his four years is Israel is going to annex the West Bank. I mean, they already have. There’s almost nothing left of it. It’s just so carved up with settlements that it doesn’t even exist anymore. And I think it’s also very possible that Kushner, his son, can buy the property and Biden can buy the property on the Mediterranean, they may even annex northern Gaza.

And what’s so sad about this is that nothing can be done about it. Nothing. Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan – they’re all just complete and total whores for Israel. Turkey is a whore for Israel. They have been bought for generations. Bribed, blackmailed, and extorted for generations. And so, I’m very pessimistic about Palestine. I think it’s going to go much, much worse. Well, I even found in 2019 the headlines in the Israeli gazette or whatever it’s a major newspaper. No, it was the Israeli Times.

That’s right. The Israeli Times, which is like the New York Times of Israel with a big headline in 2019. Trump is the first Jewish U.S. President. And I think that’s exactly what’s happened. And I think that he will basically give Israel everything they want. He gave them everything they asked for in his first administration. And they want the West Bank. They want the Golan Heights. They want Syria. And another wild card, of course, is Hezbollah in Lebanon. They have to deal with them, but with their land bridge now cut off from Iran and Iraq to supply arms to them, I don’t know how they’re going to you know keep the pressure up.

The other wild card is Yemen, but they’ve stopped because of this bogus ceasefire, which will not last. And Yemen was causing Israel, you know, the pain that they needed to feel for their genocide. And so, I’m very negative about it you know he’ll look good I mean he’s a consummate actor. I mean, he is an actor. He was in Hollywood. I mean, Trump is Hollywood. So, he’s a consummate actor and he makes the MAGA people feel really empowered, but I need, you know, the MAGA people need to remember that if you watch the film footage of his inauguration, there was no Bible.

He did not put his hand on any Bible. So, he has betrayed his Christian base. He has betrayed his MAGA base. So, I’m pretty negative, other than there’ll have been some good optics, some good smoke and mirrors and it’ll look good. But he will do nothing that his bosses, as you talk about, and also the woke, you know, the male, female, you know, getting rid of the 10 different genders and all that. The WEF can put that off for four years and that’ll look good. He’ll do some things that look good.

I also like to point out that he just had, was it Larry Ellison or somebody he had in the White House about mRNA vaccines that will have mRNA custom mRNA vaccines for everybody. And his warp speed with bringing the COVID vaccines in, you know, during COVID and killing millions of people, I’m pretty negative and I’m sorry. That’s not a good way to end the show, but I’m pretty negative about what Trump’s going to do. Materially, not superficially, but materially, I don’t think much is going to happen. I think it’s going to maybe get. Sorry about that. Sorry about the downer.

Quan: No, but you’re right, Jeff, because, you know, Obama was playing on the image of the first black African-American president, right?

Jeff: Yeah, even though it was half-white.

Quan: Yeah, but that’s okay. Let’s say he was black enough. But Trump is playing on the image of a traditional America coming back. And once again, I insist on the fact he’s a small plutocrat. For the true plutocrats, he’s almost a person of the upper middle class. I’m exaggerating a little bit but it’s almost done.

Jeff: Yeah, he’s a rich Truman.

Patrice: Exactly. Exactly.

Quan: Yeah, exactly. He’s a rich tumor.

Jeff: Trump’s dad was a New York slumlord and Truman’s dad was a grocer, but unfortunately, I think they’re both under the thumb of people who do not have our interests in art.

Patrice: No, no. No, I share your pessimism about many things. I think that any kind of space that they give Trump is because they think this is the most, shall we say, the best option for us. I’m talking about the real ruling circles, the real ruling class. The real, shall we say, plutocrats instead of this.

Jeff: The City of London and Wall Street – that’s where the power lies.

Patrice: That’s where the power lies it hasn’t been broken.

Jeff: Yeah, absolutely.

Patrice: So, whatever they have in store for the rest of the world is something that we have to be basically shall we say aware or alert because they will definitely try to do something that is shall we say, conducive to strengthening their power hold. The power holder is slipping. They feel it waning and they’re trying to do what is impossible not only to stop that but to expand it again. And I think that whoever is the figurehead in the White House, in this case, trump, they will use all his characteristics. And, you know, they can also introduce tentatively some really repressive measures and see how they play and then blame Trump. I mean, they picked up Trump as a lab laboratory, you know.

Quan: Absolutely.

Patrice: Yes, he can’t be persuaded to do this or that. And then boom, ah, look, we told you he’s a fascist dictator or whatever. So, you know, they have actually more room to do ugly things with Trump than even under the area that just you know, demanded area that just left the stage. It can’t get away with more things.

Quan: Yeah. Well, Patrice, that’s truly the modest opera and die of the oligarchy. You have the good cop and you have the bad cop. Obama was an example of the good cop at least in the eyes of most people, okay he was a good cop and you get a bad cup, good cup, bad cup, good cup, back cup, etc. But I would say that the element of positivity and hope here is that the Anglo-American oligarchy is not the only game in town right now. And the other game in town is getting stronger and stronger.

And I would like to mention the incident of Red Note, the Xiaohongshu where the American people suddenly realized that the true American dream is happening in China right now. So, I would say that it’s part of the fact that they are no longer the only game in town and you know perfectly that of course the average people, they don’t have the same tools of power that the oligarchs but it’s a positive element. And we wouldn’t see.

And I would like to introduce a strange comparison. Most of the time we compare the US to the Roman Empire but I think it’s not exactly the right comparison. I think it’s more the Ottoman Empire because you know that in the Ottoman Empire, they used slaves to manage that state right even the prime minister the pasha, the grand vizier was most of the time a former slave like their impresses were former slaves.

Well, you see here in the US or let’s say the Western Empire in general, you have a very small circle of true plutocrats that most of the time we don’t even know the faces and the names using smaller plutocrats’ upper-middle-class people that I equate to be their slaves for what is the obvious circus of politics. And you know perfectly that the Ottoman Empire had a kind of expansion phase from 1299 to 1699 for four centuries but I made the hypothesis that the expansion of the American empire would be shorter and shorter. And I think that the expansion phase of the American empire ended with the special military operation in Ukraine. And from now on, it would be a slow decline till its collapse.

Patrice: Yeah.

Quan: So, we would see in the next three generations, well, I would die before the end of the third generation, but I will see in the next I will say the next 30, 40 years if that general trend wouldn’t be confirmed.

Patrice: Right. I agree with you. I find that what you say is exactly the same way I look at it but minus your originality. You said it first, I cannot agree with you more. That’s exactly what it is. And of course, each empire has its own historical accidents that shape perceptions you know us marks or other people like that have said many times that history repeats itself in some ways, but not exactly the same. There are some things that stay there in place and some of the things that are basically revised by the flow of history. So obviously, I mean the American empire was essentially an accident of history.

It was in some ways the overreach and the stupidity the hubris of the Brits who precipitated the First and Second World Wars, you know, particularly. And later on, I mean, when the world emerged from the Second World War, sure, the United States was the only member of the angler pie or to put it away or the Western empire that was intact. It was an accidental history. It wasn’t something that was projected like that, although there was calculation in the timing of their interventions. But yeah, I think that is more or less the way I see the arc of history for this empire.

Quan: Yeah, but Patrice, what would be your idea of Trump’s legacy if you have to mention two that you would hypothesize at Trump’s legacy?

Patrice: Oh, that’s very good. I don’t know. See, because we’re dealing with false reality all the time when we deal in matters of judging the president of the United States or the president of any kind of big political figure in the West, their system of power is such that they have all these figure hits that are one or two layers away from the actual rulers of the system, right? Many of which, as you said, very, very aptly, we don’t even hear or know about. As a matter of fact, some plants are so extensive in their holdings and so on that, they don’t even know what they have.

There was an article by Whitney Webb, I think it was somebody. We did an article talking about the fact that they have a name even for this. It’s like pilferage by the servants of the super-rich, right? Because the super-rich, the actual super-rich have so much. And they have so many properties all over the world and so that there are all kinds of little mice that are constantly eating and gnawing away and making fortunes for themselves in a way that they have to set up internal police so that they’re not being bled away by all these guys who are constantly doing that.

It is such an extensive fortune for the properties. So, this guy who wrote this article was talking about the fact that the British nobility particularly the Royals, they don’t know how much they own. That’s how much they have. The Surrey Royals, they don’t know how much they own. And they had a firm like some accounting firm to actually calculate what they own. And these guys are working at it for like three or four years and still, they kind of come close. It’s like the Pentagon, right? The Pentagon, you have a trillion here, a trillion there, and they disappear. Nobody knows about this.

Quan: Absolutely.

Patrice: It is an extensive network of wealth that has embedded itself across the globe and so on and so forth. So, with that very clumsy breakfast, for which I apologize to you. I must say that prognosticating what the legacy of Trump will be is like asking, well, what does the figurehead do that will be his we don’t know because there are so many possibilities here. The world is in flux. There are so many things that the Eurasian powers can do and will do in the meantime.

We’re dealing in this fluid world with the electable of history and so forth. Trump can be played for all the characteristics of personality that he brings to bear will be utilized by his managers to the extent that they can do it and get away with it. But frankly, the dark forces, to put it that way, that control Trump and control every American president will be the ones to decide this. So, what will be the legacy? I think that there are threatened by the crisis of legitimacy.

So, they will try to do an impossible act to put the impossible pyramid on its apex and try to stabilize it there which is going to be done. It can’t be done because the essential characteristic of the empire is that it’s an immoral criminal empire. It’s criminal even when it is being, you know, nice to you. It is interesting because it goes that pick in your pocket, to begin with. So, you have a situation where there’s an organized crime syndicate, so to speak, running this extensive apparatus.

And they have to face sooner or later, the crisis of legitimacy so that in their thinking, in their corporate thinking, which is a stunted kind of imagination, they’ll say, oh, well, we can apply two approaches here. More propaganda that has failed or easily to counteract this trend to more and more clear thinking about things and more repression. So how do you introduce repression in a system that is permeated by all these mythologies about freedom? Personal freedom and this and that. There are many obstacles.

So, this presents a crisis of governance but I don’t know that these people have it very clear how they’re going to proceed. They have a study; I know they have all these think tanks and all that and all these prostitutes who do nothing but think for them. And they’re all trying to solve that issue. He said, God, they’re not. I mean, how do you solve this issue? How do you apply extensive levels of repression without accepting the reality that sooner or later people are going to realize that you are doing that to them?

When people begin to disappear, not by the tens or the hundreds, but by the thousands, are the bosses not going to be aware of something like that? I mean, the very guards I mean, the rich are not going to be… you know, money, the concentration camps, the elimination camps, the helicopters that drop people into the ocean in the middle of the night. The working class is doing all those things in uniforms in manning all this apparatus of repression.

Sooner or later, those people are going to be talking to somebody else. And the truth will come out. What will happen then? Anybody’s guess, right? So, the system is intrinsically untenable because a system based on corruption and systemic exploitation sooner or later begins to cave in on its own weight. It’s unsustainable. The only system that is sustainable is a system that goes along the loss of entropy. In other words, it leads to its own sustainability because there is an equalization of dimensional powers.

It cannot exist in a situation where you are constantly fighting what you might call the loss of physics in politics. So, this system is doomed. The question is that it can do a humongous amount of damage while it dies while it is retiring from the stage of history. As you have said so many times this morning or this evening, there is this parallel universe of power emerging with BRICS and that will determine then that will determine a dialectic on the old empire, the American empire and the Anglo empire which will, you know, probably formulate different policies that they will be tested for a while.

The empire, you can see that they can test things in Europe, they can test things in determined sectors of Europe or in a given nation that has no something that you might say, well, sociologically, these people are close to us. So, you know, let’s try it here. But, you know, it’s a big guess at this point because we’re basically just on the eve of this humongous experiment. The challenging powers are experimenting with some things, although much less much less because they have much less.

First of all, they have great-thinking people at their helm. The helm of the challenging powers. Russia and China and Iran – they are people who can think. The empire, the old empire doesn’t have that. And secondly, although there are many smart people in the corporate world, so-called corporate corporatus. Politically, they’re stupid people. They’re stupid. The corporatus are stupid. And you can see that in many manifestations of the system. For example, just look at the advertising curve in this country, the way it has evolved.

The stupid things that they put on ads more and more. The corporatus are dumb in some ways. They can say, oh, we’re super intelligent. We’ll go to Harvard; we get degrees in Stanford and all that. It doesn’t adapt to actual intelligence, political and social intelligence, they’re basically dwarves. They’re mediocre, intrinsically mediocre. Even the people in old Europe who used to pride themselves on having this tremendous technique, today, they produce mediocrities. Opportunity arrears mediocrity.

Quan: Yes. Well, you know that Ecole Nationale, which has been created by De Gaulle precisely is now a machine to reproduce the so-called elite. Because, under the goal, I think that the students of Ecole Nationale publique were about 30 to 40 percent of sons from the working class. And now I think it’s even less than 5% of sons from the working class because it’s a machine to produce the upper class.

Patrice: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, eventually this we were talking about before you know that if you have a capitalist sector or an aristocratic sector that is a perverse immoral so-called plutocratic or aristocratic sector, when you have that sector working inside your society if you have a socialist society and you have that sector inside, it’s like having a tumor there, having cancer there.

It will infiltrate areas and look at what happened to the NIH. It’s a case study in how gradually you denigrate a system that you create at one point with great acceptance by the public and then you begin to denigrate it gradually, gradually until the people themselves, this thing doesn’t work, replace it with private systems.

They can create all these things because they control the media, they control the political class and the accumulation of lice confuses the people. So here you have fermeture des élites that you just mentioned. There is this, how could I say inevitable evolution as the power concentrates in this plutocratic tier of society, they will create the institutions necessary to serve their ends. And you can see that in the way they have destroyed all these worthwhile meritocratic institutions.

Jeff: Well, guys, let’s call it a day.

Patrice: What time?

Jeff: We’ve been going for over an hour and a half and so it’s been wonderful. I learned so much from you two guys tonight. And I just really… And I can’t wait to do the first edit on the transcript and then I send it to my Pakistani editor who gets rid of all the uhs, ahs, yaws, and the thousands of them. And we don’t realize how badly we talk until you see the transcript. It’s just unbelievable.

Patrice: I know. It’s unbelievable.

Jeff: But it works when you’re talking, but boy, when you read it, you really got to clean it up. It’s just unbelievable. Anyway, this is Jeff J. Brown in Taiwan Province in China and we have Patrice Grandville in the Hudson Valley of New York and we have Quan Le, our maestro philosopher is in Montreal, Canada, and all three of us are members of the China Writers Group. I want to wish both of you and all of the people who will eventually be watching this around the world. I’ll give all of you a Buddhist bow. Give you a very Buddhist bow and wish you all a very happy Chinese New Year of the Wood Snake in three days. It’s going to be exciting and when we come back, we’ll do this again. We’ll do it like the last weekend of each month and a lot of shit’s going to go down in the next 30 days.

Patrice: Oh, my God.

Jeff: So, it’ll be an exciting show in a month. Thanks, guys. I’m going to go have breakfast. I rolled out of bed at 3.30 and haven’t even had a cup of coffee. So, I’m going to go have breakfast.

Patrice: My thanks to you for organizing this and Quan Le for everything that he contributed tonight, and today.

Jeff: Thank you, guys. Bye-Bye. Good night.

Quan: Bye-Bye.

Patrice: Thank you. Bye-bye.

###

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