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Sixteen years on the streets, living and working with the people of China, Jeff

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It was wonderful being on Victoire’s show today. She is a deep and thoughtful thinker full of much compassion for humanity. We could use a few billion more like her.

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ENJOY A FUN DISCUSSION!

Transcript

Victoire Slakey: There we go. Yay! So, Jeff, welcome, and thank you so much. Yes, yes.

Jeff J. Brown: We’ve been in touch for the last year or so, and it’s nice to see who you are and be on your show today.

Victoire: Yes, thank you so much. I’m really grateful you came on my radar. I believe it was during the pLandemic.

Jeff: Yeah.

Victoire: Notice how it’s spelled everybody. And I mean spelled in more than one way through merit. And I watched a long, relatively long interview that you did with Cynthia and Matt, and I was just, like, really touched in my heart with everything that you were saying and so I’ve been following you since then and then reached out.

Jeff: Thank you. Yeah. You reached out by email.

Victoire: And I got your big Red Book On China and I’m going to link everything in the description below so that really encourages people to find your work, to find your platform. You have this wonderful, simple humanity of bringing like-minded, hearted people together to speak of what the heck is going on here and what can we do about it in the different, diverse ways that we have as different individuals with all of our specificities.

And one of the things that I know that I can do in my own way and I am really passionate about geopolitics because it’s the state of the planet, our humanity on this planet, and of the animals, of course, as well as they’re impacted, the environments, the plants are impacted by what we do. And I’m passionate about coherency and about the coherency of systems. And I look to China. I’ve been connected with the Chinese culture since I was a little girl through the arts.

Jeff: I didn’t know that.

Victoire: Yeah. Well, it’s kind of dodgy in a way, I mean, my mother came from a colonial family. She was born in Hanoi, and God knows what her father or her. I mean, I don’t know exactly what kind of actions they may have had as colonialists, but they were in contact with the Chinese culture. So yeah. So that was kind of the beginning of it for me. And anyway, I try to follow. Well, no, I’m not going to put it that way. I follow your work, to the extent because you’re very prolific. And I love your humor as well. And so I wanted to connect with you and have this conversation. It’s less of an interview in a way, and more, more of a conversation. But I am going to shut up soon and give you the.

Jeff: Well, I tell you what I would love to know, I mean, I know the word coherent, but what in your mind is coherency? I like that term. I’ve never heard it before.

Victoire: Oh, well, thank you for asking.

Jeff: Coherent, it’s just an adjective. I didn’t know there was a noun. And please explain.

Victoire: Well, it’s a process. So it is a verb even though we speak of it in terms of a noun. Coherency basically speaks to the dynamics of a system that is capable of self-organizing. And when I say self, it’s that boundary condition between the individual and the collective that is basically integrated as being something that is going to evolve and that is evolving in a direction of harmony.

So for the physical human individual, usually coherency relates to heart coherency and equilibrium of the autonomic nervous system, which is basically going to be like oil in a machine, and it’s going to facilitate all of our different functions from the visceral ones of just the mechanics of our biological operation all the way to the more immaterial ones of our cognitive processes. And what’s beautiful about it is that it’s driven through the heart and then you can scale it out to the environment because we’re all connected.

So the more coherent we are within ourselves, the more we facilitate coherency with each other. And one of the things I love about what I know about China and some of what I know about China, a lot, in fact, comes through your channels, is that they’re giving a beautiful entrainment and example of how to scale that coherency from like the Dao De Jing about the being good in yourself and then your family and then your village. And it’s like this is what they’re doing.

Jeff: They actually what you were describing that scaling up and everything else sounds like communism, socialism to me.

Victoire: Right.

Jeff: That’ll make some of the fans out there upset because there’s so much brainwashing and Pavlovian reaction when you hear the words communism and socialism. But what you just described sounds like China to me.

Victoire: Yeah.

Jeff: So maybe that’s why it’s doing so well.

Victoire: Yes. And I listened a little bit to your latest interview with, I forget his name, Metallic Man.

Jeff: Yeah, he’s a character.

Victoire: Yeah. But what he was talking about, like this the plenum, the next five-year plan. I just had me beaming, I was beaming, I was like, this is so beautiful. We can learn so much from this.

Jeff: They plan, they have a vision. They’re very visionary. They’re not thinking about the next quarterly K report on Wall Street. They’re thinking out 5, 10, 15 even 100 years into the future. So it’s really, really hard for Westerners who have a very short attention span and who have a very short horizon to compete against that. And you can see the results in the world today.

Victoire: Yes, indeed. It’s like humanity has an autoimmune disease and the West kind of represents the core of that. The Western governments, not the Western people, although a lot of Western people are brainwashed, unfortunately. I know I mean, I’m not saying I’m not at all anymore I’ve just realized when I look back and I’m thinking, gosh, I used to believe the shit I heard about Gadhafi. And when I realized what really happened in Libya today, it almost made me weep and then as well to China because I’ve been well, there was the esthetics, the art.

But then I’ve also been a student of tai chi since I was a teenager. And I had friends who went to Taiwan. But there were a lot of the people in Taiwan that were kind of pretty much infiltrated by the CIA and Chiang Kai Shek. And so they were all believing the bullshit about China. And so up until relatively recently, I had this kind of mission, a kind of suspicion. And it’s just started to fall away through looking at from people that have been there or that are there now, these divergent sources, converging information. And it’s like it’s at the top of our bucket list to go there.

Jeff: But even being there is not enough. My wife and I lived there from 1990 to 1997. Our two daughters were born during that time. And they were started being raised there and I was working there and I spoke the language and read the language beautifully and managing companies and meeting many, many Chinese people because my first four years were involved in agriculture and so I was all over the country doing sort of like fieldwork in agriculture.

So we saw lots and lots of areas in China that at that time foreigners just didn’t go to. And even with that seven years of living there and working with the Chinese and being with the Chinese and speaking their language, that’s not enough. I was an arrogant asshole and I realize now that looking back that it’s because of what I do, it’s not like racism, but it’s sort of like cultural racism.

We Westerners are so brainwashed about our social superiority, our political superiority, our cultural superiority, our governance superiority, our technical superiority, our spiritual superiority, and people don’t realize how ingrained that is in us at least my generation and I don’t know what if it’s the same for younger generations but at least for someone born in the 50s and I’m 70 years old now. I was an asshole. I wish I could apologize to all the Chinese that I was such a jerk at.

And it’s not just me, we know people that have lived there for basically their 20, 30 years raising their kids there from birth until the kids went off to university working in China. And they have the same attitude that I had from 1990 to 1997. This smug, we know better than you. I know better than you. We have all the right answers for you. You should do what we do because we are superior to you in all those different categories.

And I think about how profound that is that I lived there for seven years and didn’t get it. And then I have met people who have lived there for 20, 25, 30 years, and they still don’t get it. But it wasn’t until we went back in 2010. We went bankrupt in 2008 during the big rape of the middle class and the poor with the subprime scam. And so I guess that’s what it took.

I guess it took losing everything and moving back and we just had like two suitcases each and 400 bucks with our younger daughter. And I guess just not having anything. And all of a sudden I got it. I started going, wow, I could see China differently. It was a very humbling experience. And then I got it. And it was hard. And so that’s what got me on my career in writing and that’s when I wrote “44 Days Backpacking In China” and saw the world with different eyes. Voila.

Victoire: Oh mine. Thank you so much.

Jeff: That’s never happened.

Victoire: One of the things that really drew me to you. I might start crying, too. By the way, this is like the contagion of coherency because what you’re weeping are tears from the heart. And so one of the things that really drew me into really see, I felt that I saw you and I know we haven’t met, but I kind of think of you as an old friend.

Jeff: Oh, I have lots of email and email friends and phone friends, and this line of business. I’ve met hundreds of people that I consider friends even though we have not physically met.

Victoire: That’s it.

Jeff: So anyway, I think that’s what you have to do with China. You literally have to strip yourself of all of your presumptions and all of your convictions and all of your pride and all of your pride and its hubris. I don’t think Westerners realize how arrogant they are, and they don’t mean to be, but they just are. So you have to lose that smugness, that arrogance. And that’s the only way you can really see China and the Chinese people because they are so different, they are absolute. And I’m not saying this in any kind of racist connotation, but it’s almost like you are caught trying to get to know aliens. They are that different.

Victoire: Yes, yes, I have this intuition. It’s funny what you’re saying because this morning I was reflecting and like, also listening to this new video that you published on your Substack, your China Writers group, it’s just wonderful. I’m going to link to everything. But I was just thinking in terms of it’s an infinite universe, and it’s definitely not just Newtonian.

There’s like, there’s room for other ways of considering things, and there’s incredible magic and potential when the individual and the group find a balance that we don’t know yet here in the West because we haven’t found that balance, it kind of goes back and forth between the individual and then the collective. And each time it’s like maybe giving rise to new expressions of our potential, but we don’t have the harmony.

And I don’t know, I suspect I intuit I feel even but at a subtle level that there’s an intrinsic harmony of that culture which is a conglomerate of other cultures. It’s like 50 at least, right different like groups and it’s just what it points to I feel has such a transcendental. And I don’t mean that in a woo-woo way.

I mean that in a really grounded, practical way of transcending a limited way of operating and being to something that’s greater and that has more power but in the noble way of creativity, beauty, truth, goodness, and poverty alleviation. And now the dictatorship of the people if you read the Chinese constitution, it’s just frigging amazing. The hubris you speak of the arrogance is like it’s so immature. And the quicker that we can see how much we have to learn, the better off will be and the Chinese aren’t going to wait for us thankfully.

Jeff: No, they’ve been going at it for 5000 years. So they’ve had a lot of experience. I’m curious as to how you decide. You say that in the West we go from individual to group, but it seems to me like it’s only individual. I don’t see other than like it in wartime like World War Two or something like that, or the Great Depression in the United States, which actually also affected Europe quite a bit, but it just seems like it’s more the Marlboro Man than the USA.

We’re number one. That kind of general collective sense of superiority. I just see the Westerners as being incredibly individualist, and me, myself, and I what examples do you have, like, of them going to a group or are you talking about, like, a fraternity or sorority or a club or a university or what?

Victoire: Well, I guess the way that what I’m thinking when I say that what I’m pointing to is you’re right because it’s basically the individual. It’s why it’s so dysfunctional because the passage from individual to group doesn’t really happen. It happens through well, yeah, small groups, the government corporations armies, as you’re saying fashion all of these social engineering dynamics that are basically toxic and depending that can sway people’s consciousness to conform. So you have the individual conforming to the group. But in fact, what is really driving the dynamic is, is the ego in terms of ego meaning in this context, is the little self, the limited greedy, mortal scared, psychopathic types of tendencies. Does that make sense?

Jeff: Absolutely. You know that you are French and I have French nationality. So you’ve probably been following the French elections and what you just talked about, there’s a man that most of the listeners on this program will not know who he is, but a politician in France called Éric Zemmour. And he’s absolutely brilliant. But he is conservative. He’s nationalist, he’s patriotic, he’s anti-immigration and so he’s very pro-French culture, pro-French.

He’s a conservative Republican type and he’s Jewish but yet the Jews attacking him because he’s so honest about the situation in the West. And he made a remarkable statement that I have never heard a Westerner leader even a Western notable ever say after the European elections, the right, the conservative, the Le Pen, and the other members of the right. Of course, the left did it even worse. But he represents the right.

They started tearing each other apart instead of getting together and saying, let’s do something really good for the French people, let’s do something really good for the future. They immediately dove into the mosh pit and just started tearing each other apart, destroying any unanimity, any cooperation, any potential for synergies, and the newscaster said, Mr. Zemmour, why are they doing this? And he said since the Greeks and the Romans, Western politics is all about destroying your enemy. He said that’s all that matters.

And I have never heard a Westerner ever say that. It actually goes back to the Greeks and the Romans. He said it’s always been that way. No cooperation destroys your enemies, destroy the people who are competition, destroy people who might have gained an advantage over you, destroy them. And I think that pretty much sums up the West. I mean, it’s not cooperation it is conflict and destruction. And I really admired him for saying that.

And I wish I’d recorded it, but I don’t have a recorder. But I thought that was really brilliant. It’s something I’ve been saying. This is what I figured out after 2010 when we lost everything and came back to China. But I think the West is fundamentally flawed. Going all the way back to the ancient Greeks 3000 years ago, it is an unhealthy sociopathic too often psychopathic culture. And this kind of destructive behavior, I think is ingrained in the Western DNA.

And I think that’s why, it seems to be finally catching up with the West in terms of geopolitics now with Russia and DPRK and Iran and China and Venezuela and Bolivia and other Cuba and other countries, the BRICs finally banded together to reject this incredibly psychopathic behavior and psychopathic way of governing people as we have in the West.

Victoire: Oh, I agree 100%. When I emailed you about some of the things we might talk about just as alike in bulk, I said.

Jeff: I had to look up one of the words you said.  I didn’t know.

Victoire: Was it ponerology? Political ponerology?

Jeff: Never heard that before.

Victoire: It came up on my radar. I haven’t read the book. It was written by a Polish. I don’t remember the details, but I read some extracts from it and basically felt like I got the gist. But it’s basically about understanding evil, what we call evil, and how important that is. And you’re speaking to this now with this quote from Zemmour. When I looked, we spoke of maybe doing another conversation in French for the French.

When I look at what’s happening in France, I just really have to remind myself to breathe and not to get depressed or pissed off because it’s just so pathetic. I lived in France for almost a couple of decades, and I was teaching kind of like coherency type of stuff. And, one of the things that I realized and learned and also experienced directly teaching kind of like self-development tools like the mental health, emotional health, resiliency was how profoundly and we are all I mean it’s a broad sweeping statement.

At least in the West, one of my teachers used to say we’re all more or less a little bit anyway I mean, it’s part of the human condition neurotic. But my God, the level of anxiety of low-level anxiety in France is just heartbreaking. And a teacher that I have in France, I’ve never met him, but I really, really love his work. Maybe you’ve heard of him or know him is Etienne Szwarc. He’s a political theorist, and he’s just a really sweet clear intelligent human being trying to teach the French how to be politically intelligent and write their own constitution.

And he, of course, has left. He’s on the left, but not what we’re calling the left nowadays. He was attacked by. He had death messages sent to him by Antifa. Why? Because he thinks we need to be able to debate to hold contradictory debates with anyone. And so he was saying how the left in France is so deeply insecure that they become it’s this fear at the heart, at the core that corrupts everything.

And then that’s weaponized by the elites in France, which are basically these really sick remnants or new iterations of like the Habsburgs and whoever won the bourgeoisie that won the revolution and stuff. But yeah, this socio. I wonder how if there’s like this thing maybe in the language, in the Latin-based languages or Aristotle, from what I understand that kind of got into the language so that we identify we use nouns a lot. We say, oh, well, I am this and I am that. And so we have a very, a very separation-based, definition-based way of looking at things which prevents us from seeing the whole.

Jeff: I have not read maybe back in college I did, but I have not read the great Greek classics, Aristotle and Plato and Socrates. But I understand Aristotle is what everybody has glommed on to and he was basically promoting a totalitarian state. And I know Matt Errett, our mutual friend has a very good feeling about Plato that he was much more humanitarian and maybe we could dare say much more Chinese or Confucian but he doesn’t get all the love. The love is with Aristotle because he wanted to be the ultimate police state.

But I wrote about this, in fact, it’s in the first chapter of the big Red book on China how I think this is ingrained in us, in fact, I even have it up on my board that the West 70s of racism and its expansionism. The ancient Greeks were very expansionist. If you look at a map of ancient Greece, they went all the way up near the Black Sea. I mean, they really spread out and of course, they exterminated everything in their sight because they justified exterminating everybody by dehumanizing them and that’s why we have the Titans and the Cyclops and all these horrific monsters that they dehumanize them into monsters.

And also they didn’t work the land and they deserve to have the land taken away from them. And because they didn’t do agriculture and all they did was eat berries and have sex and they were sex maniacs. So they really dehumanized what I call the dreaded other. And those dreaded others were over their horizon. And so that justified extermination and that justified expropriation. Well, you’re not working the land the way we work it, you don’t deserve to keep it. So stealing their land, extracting what they can enslavement.

Of course, the Greeks got the slave economic model from the Egyptians. The Egyptians, they weren’t expansionists. They had a closed economic system because they had the Nile. They had the Nile River. And every year there was a Bountiful harvest. And because they had 30cm of new silt that covered their lands. And so they had guaranteed a beautiful harvest, and they had irrigation systems. And it was all based on slavery. The whole system was based on slavery.

The Greeks got slavery from the Egyptians and it seems to me from Mesopotamia, they got the idea. You know, who Gilgamesh is? The first book, the first poet, the first great poem. He was a big dumb, horny, giant like the Titans. And so that was kind of the model he just wanted to have sex, pick fruit off of the trees, and not anything else. And so I think they got that from Mesopotamia. And so they got the enslavement model.

And then I don’t know how much the Greeks were evangelical, but I guess maybe they were because look at Alexander in 300 BC going almost all the way to China, the West’s first foreign policy initiative, conquering Egypt and most of Southern Asia. And we are there. I mean, this is what we do. In fact, I was even taking some notes the other day. Then we had the Holy Roman Empire. Then we had Charlemagne, who had a slave, our good French king. He created an expansive slave economy and took over most of Europe.

Then we had the Crusades who were actually mostly French who went to the Middle East and they were estimated to have killed 6 to 7 million not only Muslims but also Orthodox Christians. And then it seeded right into colonialism in the 1400s. And it’s just it’s basically been nonstop. Greeks, Romans, the Holy Roman Empire and then Charlemagne, the Crusades colonialism, and now imperialism. That’s what the West has given or oppressed the planet Earth with for the last 3000 years. So it’s just so much in our DNA, and I don’t know how we’re ever going to get rid of it.

 Victoire: It’s like a virus.

Jeff: Yeah. And then you look at the Chinese, and it’s like an alter universe. Even Islam. Islam was very evangelical and very expansionist. But they never dehumanized anybody. They just I mean, I’m sure some people died during their expansion either become a Muslim or die. And some people fought against them and they lost, but they ever dehumanized the people that they came in contact with. And the Chinese have six levels. They had 5 or 6 levels of humanity, of course, the Chinese being the top.

And then there were the Japanese and the Koreans, who were the next level and then went out in concentric circles out across the world. And of course, the lowest level where the white people in Europe. But at no time did they ever, ever dehumanize anybody that they came in contact with. They were always whole humans with souls the same way as the Muslims. It’s really the Western model that dehumanizes their enemies that dreaded others to the point that they are easily exterminated, genocide, enslaved oppressed, robbed, and raped.

That’s why I wish that the Westerners could get off their high horse and look at the East as a more humane, positive, productive, fairer, and more just system. And I think that the hard part is that Westerners have got to now say it, Chinese Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism are superior to Judeo-Christianity. That’s just all there. And this model that I talk about 70, the 70^th, by the way, is epidemics.

Victoire: Yes, I was going to ask you to say those years.

Jeff: Bioweapons and chemical weapons.

Victoire: Right.

Jeff: But, this model, the West 70s of racism of superiority is really and you’re in South America. Look at the American natives. None of them went out. And even the Aztecs and the Incas, they stayed. They had their wars between the Aztecs had their wars and the Incas had their wars. And what’s the third one I’m leaving out? And who?

Victoire: Mayas.

Jeff: Yeah. The Mayans had interesting wars between their different groups. But none of them went out and tried to march north into Mexico and take over the Iroquois, the hundreds of tribes in North America, the hundreds of tribes in South America. None of them that I know of have tried to take over huge areas. Look at Africa. They had great. They had massive. They had incredible kingdoms and incredible civilizations.

None of them went out and tried to take over an area as big as the Democratic Republic of Congo or whatever. They had their local wars. They had their turf wars, etc. but that’s as far as it got. It’s really the other culture that was expansionist was, were the Mongols. And it’s really interesting. A lot of people don’t know this, although I don’t think it would have mattered. The Mongols were the only other group that were very, very expansionist or very expansive.

But Genghis Khan was adopted Christianity. And so he had the Old Testament to give him all he needs to know the Pentateuch, the Jewish Torah that justifies extermination and expansion and enslavement and rape and pillage and so he had, in fact, Kublai Khan’s mother was a Nestorian Christian. So actually the Mongols were Christian. But it wouldn’t have really, even if he hadn’t had the Bible that is the only other group that I know of that is bonafide.

That was extremely expansionist. The Siberian steppe tribes were very, very expansionist. And of course, Genghis Khan took over and rolled over China in 140 years. So he took over all of China and got all the way to Budapest, or was it Vienna? He expanded in Europe. So that’s the only other one that is expansionist that I know of unless you know of another one.

Victoire: I think I remember Matt Errett recently speaking to yes, this connection between Genghis Khan and the West, in fact, that there was a direct link that not necessarily enabled, but encouraged and facilitated this way of being in the world. And I wonder about Christianity because I feel it has this kind of embedded schizophrenia when the core teachings of Jesus or of the Essenes and it’s like there’s a deep mystical truth and wisdom that is like a common trunk in all of the psyches of humanity.

But then the way that that evolved was turned into a religion. The Christian religion has been the driving force of so much destruction that it’s something to behold. I understand psychopaths which is kind of a freaky thing from what I’ve learned, and what I’ve from reading or hearing about studies, they’re not necessarily because they were abused or whatever they turn into monsters, they can actually be born that way.

And there’s actually a different neurology where they’re like missing. They don’t have the capacity for empathy because they don’t have like the same system of mirror neurons just to speak to that biological mechanism that makes it that it’s like we have something that allows us to learn from each other’s faces, but in a way that’s coherent with what we’re feeling in our hearts. And psychopaths don’t do that. It’s like they don’t have a heart.

And there was some Australian psychologist or psychiatrist who did a study, kind of an epidemiological study, a psychological that showed that whilst in a normal, so to speak, normal. Let’s say you have a village with 100 people. You may have 1 or 2 people, 1 or 2% that have sociopathic tendencies. Basically, they’re like real jerks and just people know that and they’re going to know how to deal with it.

But in the West, in any case, the higher you get in the echelons of power, whether it’s corporate or governmental institutional that proportion rises tremendously to like 20 to like 30, who knows percent. And we need to stop being stupid and see we really need to grow up and become sovereign and stop believing all of the stuff that gets fed to us in the West. And this is one of the reasons we’re having this conversation because the Silk Roads, the BRICS, the Shanghai Cooperation Agreement what’s happening, I think with the flowering, the emancipation of this culture, this multi-millennial culture and its friends and its network is that the prosperity is going to become more and more available to common people here in the West.

And so it’ll be more difficult to drive through the scarcity, through the enslavement of debt, and of the way money is falsely created here by private systems so that we can actually tip over to another way of sharing resources. And that’s what communism is. As I mentioned to you, I love the way he describes communism. He said, and I’d love to speak with him and get in touch with him because he also says stupid things about China.

But he’s willing to be educated. He’s super sweet. That’s my impression of him. But what he said about communism was, look, you have to realize that everyone who grew up in a relatively healthy family, not a dysfunctional family, has experienced communism where the resources are shared. Everybody gets to eat. Everybody has a place to sleep and clothes and is warm and cared for and gets TV time or whatever.

Pet the dog, play in the yard, go on vacations that’s what communism is. And then another thing that really struck me recently, I don’t remember where I picked this up. It might have been through your channel somewhere that the Chinese themselves said, well, we actually don’t call it communism. It’s socialism with Chinese characteristics because we’re not yet civilized enough to actually practice true communism, maybe in 4 or 5 centuries or something like that. And I was like, wow.

Jeff: I’d like to address Christianity. I think one of the reasons that Christianity is so, schizophrenic it’s kind of an unfair term because it’s loaded with so much baggage. Conflict is a good word. Why Christianity is so conflicted? It has two books. It has the Old Testament, and it’s got the New Testament. And the first five books of the Old Testament is the Jewish Torah, which in the Bible is called the Pentateuch. And in the Old Testament, especially the Pentateuch, God is an angry, vengeful, jealous, violent entity who justifies the 70s of racism.

Well, maybe not the epidemics, but the expansionism, the extermination, the expropriation, the extraction, the enslavement, and the evangelism, definitely that’s the old. Well, and maybe even not even the evangelism. That’s probably more in the New Testament. But this model of expansion, enslavement and just stealing everything you can get your hands on, it’s all justified because we are the chosen people and they deserve to die because the women deserve to be raped and the children deserve to be enslaved because they’re not really human after all.

I mean, that’s unfortunately what the Pentateuch contains, and that’s part of the Old Testament. And the God in the Old Testament, he’s not a nice guy. I mean, he’s pissed off. He’s very, very vengeful. And then you’ve got the New Testament and you got Jesus Christ who was basically a communist. And he’s the one who threw the money changers out of the temple. He’s the one who shares compassion and helps each other and feeds. So you have this incredible conflict.

And so I think that’s why a culture like the United States and England, the Anglo-Saxon countries are fundamentally Protestant and Protestantism is the Old Testament. And then you have countries like France and Italy and Spain and Portugal and much of Germany that are very Roman Catholic, and Catholics are very New Testament. And you can just see how the people here act and think compared to Americans.

You know that this is definitely a New Testament culture in France, which is kinder, gentler, more concerned about other people, helping other people, taking care of other people, whereas with the hardnosed Protestants go out, get a job you’re hungry, go get a job. You know pull up your bootstraps, boy. That kind of Old Testament tough love. I think that’s why Christianity is so conflicted.

But the problem is, as you say, the people who rise up in the military and the people who rise up in government and leadership positions and in corporate positions, don’t read the New Testament. They read the Old Testament. And so to justify all that they do and then I don’t know if you’ve read it there’s a really good book called Snakes in Suits. And it’s about psychopaths in the corporate world.

And it points out how these people in Western society are the ones that float to the top, as you were talking about. The psychopaths and the sociopaths are the ones that end up being on top of the heap running the show. And, I think also because of this Old Testament mentality, I have read that the 2% psychopaths is supposed to be the number in general society. But I’d have to look up where I’d have to find my references.

But people have done studies. And in the West, especially in the United States when the definition of course, psychopathy and sociopathy is a continuum. It’s a continuum. And there are many different degrees of psychopathy and sociopathy when is someone a sociopath and not a psychopath and vice versa. But they said that when you really look at least American culture no fewer than 15% of the people are sociopaths, not 2%.

Victoire: Oh, wow.

Jeff: And sociopaths, psychopaths. And then getting into just naught, that’s 15% psychopaths. And then up to 25% if you get just sociopath misanthropic violence, et cetera, it could be up to 25%. Whereas, in China in Asian cultures, it really is about 2%. It really is about 2%. So Confucianism, Daoism, and Buddhism do not encourage psychopathy and sociopathy, whereas unfortunately, Western civilization does.

Because of the model of Confucianism, Daoism, and Buddhism, it weeds out these horrible people and keeps almost most of them from rising to the top. So it’s almost like an anti-universe. They do a really good job of eliminating these exterminators, genocides, murderers, and enslavers. Whereas in the West, they’re the ones who tend to end up being in power and running corporations.

Victoire: Right. That makes so much sense. It reminds me of this polarity. It’s like that proverbial story of the two wolves. Which one are you feeding? And it’s like looking at the world through this lens. I was like, well, that we talk about the Global South. I wonder here in South America because, sadly, there’s Argentina and a lot of the Zionists that have infiltrated what happened in Chile with Pinochet, with the CIA what they’re trying to do now in Venezuela, it really comes down to being able to see this, to be able to recognize it and to understand or to feel the what the ramifications are and then to educate.

Well first through one’s own practice one of the things that I’ve been learning and I’m still learning is to disengage from all of the kind of chaotic anger, vengeful, this archetypal Old Testament God that might be alive in me. Not as a god, but as a feeling consciousness and to more and more just cut that at the root and still hold the vision and to see that this exists, but it behooves me not to feed it. And so I see that one of the main manipulations that goes on in the Western world is to keep people down by keeping them angry and frightened which is the projection of what these oligarchs are. These psychopaths are.

Jeff: Divided. Divide and conquer.

Victoire: So to not be like all airy fairy or woo-woo or everything’s perfect. I love everybody and yet to have that capacity of compassion but to also have the sword, or say, well, you need to go to jail or you know what I’m saying? That there’s a solid, effective immune system that keeps us healthy and capable of engaging and of growing and of gardening and turning. I mean, I’m really excited to see what the Chinese are going to come up with next in terms of like, technology coming from such a deeply Confucian, Daoist, Buddhist, wise worldview that is capable of doing all this connectivity through the high-speed trails and then going into Laos and you were speaking to what’s his name, Nima. I’ve heard and listened. I love his show. And I loved what you brought to his show.

Jeff: I’ve been on twice. I haven’t been asked back. I’d love to get back on. But he has a wonderful show. I really enjoy his stuff.

Victoire: Yeah.

Jeff: Can I say something about communism?

Victoire: Please.

Jeff: Well, another way that the West is completely out of sync with most of the rest of humanity is that I have always. Well, you’ve got a big red book on China. I juxtapose a picture on the first page of Karl Marx with Chung Tang, the first emperor of the Shang dynasty, which goes back to like, the 1700 years before Christ saying that the Chinese have been communists for 5000 years. But it’s not just China when you really look at it outside of Europe and its spawn in North America and Australia and New Zealand, most of the rest of the world for thousands of years has been communist.

The Native Americans had magnificent civilizations where they had councils governing councils where women had a huge voice in the daily governance of the people. You go to Africa. You go to Asia. You go to Oceania. You go everywhere in the world except in the West. Communism is not strictly Marxist, Leninist, Stalinist, or Maoist communism. That’s political communism. But there have been all kinds of communism around the world.

For thousands of years, tribes and peoples and cultures and civilizations kingdoms everywhere, they shared resources, they shared housing, they shared food, they took care of each other, and they cooperated. The Chinese for thousands of years have shared their draft animals and their tools and have collectively grown crops going back thousands of years helping each other with labor, during times of need, and helping each other when they were sick.

That’s the New Testament, that’s the New Testament. And that has been going on across North America, South America, Africa, Asia, and Oceania for thousands of years. And again that is a definition of communism. Collective security, taking care of each other, educating each other, etc.. So that’s the other reason that the West just sticks out like a sore thumb. You know, they’re like Marlboro Man. You know, the Marlboro ads in the United States, the lone cowboy. That’s the ideal in the West is that individual.

You know, I can do it myself. I don’t need anybody’s help, which has never been true. It’s just it’s a myth. But the fact that it is an ideal and is admired and strived for, tells you all you need to know about why the West has so many problems. And it’s now with, again, as you said, BRICS and SCO and then also in South America, Sea Lac, and Mercosur and all these other groupings that are gathering together. The West instead of being in control is now struggling with its model of governance and society. One other thing you mentioned Malay. Do you know a guy on YouTube called Richard Medhurst?

Victoire: Yes, yes.

Jeff: He lives, I think maybe in Syria or Turkey. I don’t know where he is.

Victoire: In Lebanon.

Jeff: He had in Lebanon. I think he was in Lebanon.

Victoire: I think so.

Jeff: Anyway, he had like a quick ten-minute show about the names of Israeli leaders and none of their names are real. They’re all fake. And they’re because they’re all from Europe. Instead of what is it, Sheeran or whatever his name was actually, Patkowski. Golda Meir was actually named again, some Polish or German or German or Dutch name

Victoire: And Ukrainian name.

Jeff: Yeah, Ukrainian. Yeah. And he actually pointed out that Avere Malay and Benjamin Netanyahu actually have the same name. Their birth name is Mileikowsky. Their names are Mileikowsky. They both have the same last name Mileikowsky. Milkowski in Argentina, they chopped off the last half and just made him a Malay. And of course, Benjamin Netanyahu just changed his name from Mileikowsky to Netanyahu to sound Semitic.

Victoire: Oh my gosh that’s really interesting. I think that’s another really important aspect for people to grasp in the West because there are a lot of people waking up to the Palestinian plight and the evil of Zionism but they don’t realize that or maybe they do, but it’s not. It needs to be clarified more as to Israel, the so-called state of Israel, the entity, the Zionist entity is basically just it’s a bunch of Europeans and Americans, which are basically Europeans that gone through the US and I don’t think there’s any Jews of Native American descent.

I mean, Israelis I’m not confusing the Jews with the Israelis but I’m separating the Zionists and the Jews. And what you’re saying is, yeah, it makes so much sense. It reminds me also of something I read sometime last year that basically showed that Zuckerberg, the owner of Facebook was connected what are the Habsburgs.

Jeff: Oh, really? Wow.

Victoire: If my memory is correct. So please, everybody, do your due diligence. Don’t take everything we’re saying as you know, some kind. I mean, it’s always the same story of, we really need to go within. I love what you were speaking to about communism, I just gosh, I extracted one quote, but there are so many others, I encourage everybody to get your beautiful book. I haven’t finished reading it, by the way, because I’m a slow reader and it’s a big book, the Big Red Book on China.

Jeff: Big Red book on China.

Victoire: Right. And I have the digital version. So it’s pretty light, but it’s still a lot of pages, and but really beautiful. It’s also, I want to say beautifully written. It’s really a pleasure to read.

Jeff: Thank you. I’m humbled and honored for someone of your caliber, intelligence, and experience to say that. That really means a lot to me. So thank you.

Victoire: Back at you, you wrote Western Empire and this is, I think from like, even just the first chapter, Western Empire has never forgiven China for overthrowing the ongoing colonial order. And to this day spend billions trying to undermine, subvert, and overthrow the CPC and China’s modern independent way of life. This onslaught of subterfuge and treason has failed miserably due to the Chinese long historical adaptation of a communist system of society and governance going back thousands of years.

Jeff: That’s true. That’s why they can’t beat them. And as the metallic man said their technology’s just going to go sky high. I mean, they’re just getting warmed up. And instead of using it to create wealth for the 1%, they will use it to help the 99% and create a better life and better society and a better environment and a better world. Not only just for the Chinese, but they’re also sharing this which is why everybody wants to work with the Chinese because they’re also sharing much of this technology with Africa and the rest of Asia and South America.

So that’s absolutely true. And there was something I wanted to ask you about. I just wanted to say that I think Zionism is somewhat of a diversion, a psychological deflection. Zionism is nothing more than the Western model, the seven E’s of racism. But it’s colonialism, imperialism, and expansionism. But it’s just unique to Palestine.

They just gave it a name and it is dominated by Jews but it’s no different from capitalism in Africa, Western capitalism in Africa, Western capitalism and imperialism in South America and across Asia and Oceania, wherever they can get in and subvert governments and turn them into vassals like South Korea and Japan. And now unfortunately the Philippines again after Rodrigo Duterte’s one term as president, he’s the only one in Philippines history who has actually stood up to the Western empire. But it’s a synonym for Western capitalism, imperialism, and colonialism. That’s all it is.

Victoire: So I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for bringing the attention back to basically the common denominator, so to speak, the root because it helps to simplify as well and not get lost in these different labels. But yeah, that’s my understanding of it. When I say Zionism, I’m not just focusing on that, but it’s that those are the seven E’s that virus, that psychic virus that the Western cultures seem to hold and to try to subjugate the rest of the beautiful host of this planet and our human brothers and sisters and all the animals and the plants and this beautiful ecosystem on this tiny blue-green raft that we live on which is also just the infinite universe is also inside.

And I don’t want to take up too much more of your time. I mean, I’m enjoying myself and I’d love to have some more conversations with you. But I just want to say one more thing and get your feedback on it or your input on it before we close is that coming back to this system’s view of an organism and of the coherency and of the example of how the Chinese culture is showing us this beautiful capacity for scaling harmony from the individual to billions of individuals, the autoimmune, whatever you want to call it, disease of the West, of capitalism, of empire of the 70s and we’ll list them down as well that you basically put in a nutshell.

Well, there’s something called when an individual has a life-threatening disease, which we might say, well, maybe humanity has a life-threatening disease with nuclear weapons and all these biological weapons and all of this other crazy shit is spontaneous remission. In other words, the individual that is ill has the deep enough, I don’t know how to describe it because it’s not like I’ve gone through it myself and I’ve had close, very close, beloved persons die and not spontaneously remiss from life-threatening cancers or other things but I know that it’s more than possible.

It’s just like it happens all the time. And I feel like this is one of the things that’s going to happen that is happening perhaps even as we speak that we may not see it because there’s still so much gangrene and sickness and disease and suffering and horror. But the tipping point is that there is this capacity for healing. And it happens and it grips off all of the cells in the organism. And it’s not explainable in Newtonian terms, in linear terms. It’s almost like this. And I think that that’s one of the things that we’re doing, you and I and then all our friends, all your friends, your platform with the China Writers Group.

And other people, people who are listening to us, people in everybody in their own unique ways is to basically pulse to broadcast this vibration which is something that we could measure of health, of wholeness, of harmony, of compassion, of creativity, of courage, of innovation, of vision, of ideals, of humanity that that the Chinese classics really spoke to. I have so much faith in that. I know that it’s happening. Yeah, it’s the paradox of it’s like it’s already there and we must make it happen, right? Otherwise, it won’t. Something like that.

Jeff: I appreciate you finishing off the show with a healthy dose of optimism and hope because the world needs it right now.

Victoire: Okay.

###

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