TRANSCRIPT: Does Ukraine equal Taiwan? Do they mean World War III? JB West and JB East present: See You In The Hague! #22T


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Does Ukraine equal Taiwan? Do they mean World War III? JB West and JB East present: See You In The Hague! #22.



James: The title of today’s show is “Does Ukraine Equal Taiwan?”. And we are given that question by Joe Biden who said that yes, China fooling around with Taiwan would be equal to Putin going into Ukraine. Now this is a big question, it involves the entire world, just think of the whole globe, imagine that big globe and how can you deal with it at all? Well, you have to turn to JB West Jeff J. Brown and JB East James Bradley.

We’re two guys with the same initials, both handsome, both exactly the same age, two Americans who have been all over the world literally. I hitchhiked around the world when I was 21,  Jeff is still knocking off the dust from hitchhiking around Asia. Right now, I’m in New Zealand and Jeff is out there in Normandy. We’ve got you covered in terms of looking at the whole world. So, Jeff, I’ll ask you a question. What does it mean when Joe Biden says that Taiwan equals Ukraine?

Jeff: I think it just shows the sense of desperation of Western Empires, the Bretton Woods world order which has totally dominated and exploited most of the world’s resources and humanity, since World War II. Ukraine has completely blown up in the face of NATO and Taiwan would also blow up in the face of the United States and Western Empire.

But as we have seen throughout history, desperate empires do a lot of stupid things, in trying to maintain hegemony and their control over their oppressed people. So, it is frightening, James, you said it is frightening to think that the United States would even think about, even give it a thought of trying to defend Taiwan, as that would pull in Japan, China, South Korea, North Korea, possibly Vietnam. I mean, it is a really, really, really scary situation.

James: Well, it’s scary situation that been made pretty accessible and almost fun for the American public. I don’t know if you saw, Jeff, but on this Sunday’s Meet the Press, they had guess what? War games: the US versus China. They had war games stadium box, big box like a sandbox and then you could move ships and there was Taiwan and China.

And there was the US team and the China team, and they went through round one and then round two and there was music, you know, underneath it. So, the American public is getting marinated in this idea of having a war. I mean, you can see on Meet the Press, Jeff, and what’s his name? Who’s the pinhead who runs Meet the Press? You don’t know.

Jeff: I don’t know.

James: I don’t watch it, but I check in on the Sunday shows to see what they’re selling and he said, the best case is a ground war in Taiwan. The worst case is nuclear. Now, folks, anyone who has been to Taiwan, I was there first time in 1974, my daughter lives there. And I’ve been to Taiwan so many times… a ground war in Taiwan. I mean, you know, if you stand up in Taiwan, you can almost see China. I lived on the island between Taiwan and China.

And you get that feeling, you know, that you can almost touch China and Taiwan at the same time, and we would launch another Asian ground war 6,000 miles away? It’s almost unthinkable. And then the worst case, he just shrugged, Chuck Todd is his name and he just shrugged, oh the worst case would be nuclear. See you next week and here is Pfizer. And then here is the Pfizer ad. Can I act on Taiwan little bit?

Jeff: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Well, this is wonderful.

James: Great. So just, you know, where the listeners are exactly so it’s hard to make a geographical reference, but I’m from Wisconsin. And then up above Wisconsin, in between Wisconsin and Canada is the “UP”. It’s called the Upper Peninsula and it’s the Upper Peninsula, Michigan. So, if you look at the map of Michigan, Michigan kind of has this peninsula that is cut off from… And the UPs, the Uppers as we call them, you know, they feel independent and they’ve often talked about secession with their secession stickers up there.

Well, let’s say that Canada had a big military and then in, let’s just choose a year, Canada slices off the UP, slices off the Upper Peninsula, Michigan and makes colors in Canada on the map. Well, would you think the people of Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota would ever forget that? A hundred years later, two hundred years later, they would be talking about the correct providence of this thing called the Upper Peninsula.

And I draw this to make it so simple, because that’s how China sees Taiwan. A little history lesson to Chuck Todd, you know, the American presenting history is starting right now. There’s a Chinese plane flying over this democratic country, Taiwan, we got to save it. You know, everything’s right now, and there’s no yesterday and then the Chinese, you know, they have a history. We think back to George Washington.

We write books about Thomas Jefferson and they’re best sellers and we marinate ourselves in that time. We have Williamsburg, where we rebuilt the Colonial Village, you know, we think two hundred years into the past. Why can’t China? Well, China thinks two hundred years into its past, it thinks will Taiwan Chinese. Everyone in the world knew that. It was under Chinese influence, no problem. And then after the Civil War I’m taking you back to the nineteenth century.

After the Civil War, there was a one-eyed American General, General Legendre, and he had one eye and he was tall and he became a council in China, a minor Council. Well, General Legendre thought that Indian foreign policy in the world was the Monroe Doctrine and Andrew Jackson kicking out the Indians. So, with Andrew Jackson, with the Trail of Tears, many people know the history, you cleaned out the Indians. Then you said this is our territory.

And the way you did it is by saying these people are less than us. So, Legendre tells the Chinese, hey you should militarily, you know, conquer Taiwan because you know, you got to put your flag around it and draw all these lines, like the West is drawing. And the Chinese lashed out of, you know, why do we need to let everyone know Taiwan is Chinese? Well, General Legendre is kicked out, not kicked out of China, but he leaves China and he goes to Tokyo and it becomes the first employee of the Chinese Foreign Ministry.

And he has private audiences with Emperor Meiji who loves this guy and soon in the newspaper you see the Japanese word corradi, which is a Japanese-making of the word colony, so they needed a colony just like America. And in the 1870s, an American ship repainted Japanese sails to Taiwan and invaded Taiwan. That was the beginning of Japanese incursions and Japan subsequently got control of Taiwan, used it as an unsinkable aircraft carrier in World War Two.

And then critically after World War II, America had control of all the seas. There was no China, the listener has to remember. There was no China. China was in the Civil War. Mao and Chiang Kai-Shek were duking it out and the Americans – not to criticize them – they owned the Pacific, and they drew lines. This is where Japan ends and this is where China ends, the Philippines and they drew all these line on the maps of the Pacific.

When there was no China, the Chiang Kai-Shek lost, the Chinese people went to Mao, Mao got the Mandate of Heaven, and America, kind of illegally not playing the games straight, took the loser of the Chinese revolution and put them on Taiwan. And folks, I don’t know how old you are. I’m 68. When I was in high school, I was taught that see, there’s this huge red mass on the map. That’s Red China. We don’t talk to them. That’s not the real China, they’re not real Chinese.

Those 500 million at that time. But the real China is on the little island here and I was taught that in school, this is the real China on this little island, you know. Oh my God! And it sounds crazy, but that was true for many years. So, folks, all his talk of invasion of Taiwan, the Chinese don’t see it that way. And I’m not arguing for their case, I’m just saying, historically, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is part of the United States. It’s part of Michigan and Taiwan is part of China.

And in the recent history, it got dressed up as something else, but we have to stop fooling ourselves. And just like East and West Germany were united, just like Korea, North and South can unite, and they can work it out. China and Taiwan can work it out. They already have so many cross-border relationships and everyone, but in American TV its only presented as aggressive.

So, I asked my daughter who lives in Taipei, you know what happens if China takes over Taiwan and she kind of sounded like it was boring and she said, well, I guess I’ll have a different color passport. That’s my little allegort, you know, we have to realize if we’re going to engage someone in the Pacific, we have to understand the history of the Pacific.

Jeff: Well, not only that but it’s not just since World War II or even the nineteenth-century, Taiwan has been a part of the Chinese Nation, maybe not as a nation state, but as part of the Chinese Nation going back thousands of years. And to think that this tiny island, which is the size of Maryland in the United States, and the Netherlands in Europe, and has 23 million people compared to 1.4 billion in mainland China. And, you know, Taiwan would be the six largest provinces of China in terms of GDP.

It’s an important economy but it’s just nothing compared to Mainland China. And what a lot of people don’t realize is that only has 23 million people. I mean, that’s not even as big as Shanghai or Beijing or Chongqing or Guangdong. Taiwan is not even as big as China’s four biggest cities. Not only that, but 5% – one million Taiwanese – live on Mainland China. And they’re not washing dishes and driving taxis. These are CEOs, these are business owners, factory owners, managing directors, scientists, engineers, high-level, highly educated people.

There’s a million Taiwan living and working in mainland China. It is just like for the United States and everybody else. It is the manufacturing motor for Taiwan’s economy. I like to joke that all China has to do, is just cancel about ten or twenty thousand visas and send all those managing directors and factory owners and CEOs and presidents of companies, just send them home. And it would literally bring Taiwan to its knees, because the island’s economy would implode without all of that.

As you said, it’s like an umbilical cord between Taiwan, it’s only 200km away and it’s just… they’re stuck together, umbilical cord, economic social historical cultural. They speak Mandarin, you know, just like the Chinese do. So, then you describe this thing like on Meet the Press it just unbelievable. I mean, does Chuck Todd know that the supply line from Los Angeles to Taipei is 11,000 km? What can I say?

James: No, that’s what I mean. It’s the type, your aperture of your camera very wide as you speak. Just take in there’s war games, there is a sandbox. Boom, boom, boom. But there is no comprehension that China’s got 1.5 billion people in they are right next to Taiwan. And it is not we have to give up, I think is it our thinking. I went to school in Japan in 1974. And when I saw Biden go to Korea and Japan on his trip, it was like, wow, you know, it’s 1978 all over again. You know, there’s no China. There is just poor China.

That China isn’t a player and then America goes to its puppets, Japan and South Korea and kind of salute to the troops. I mean, the American military runs those countries. But just wake up – Japan, everyone, the average age of the Japanese right now is like 104. I admire the Japanese, but there’s not many of them, number one. And number two, they were trained by the American military. American military record in training lately? Let’s see, they trained the South Vietnamese army, they train the Afghan Army.

They train the Iraqis, you know, how’s that working out? Every army that America has trained has had some problems, but we got this old talk tbat the Pacific command has now become the Indo-Pacific. And they want to build a Pacific-made Indo-Pacific NATO. And, you know, I’ll just close my little part here by recalling Secretary of State Blinken yesterday gave a speech to the Asia Society and Kevin Rudd, the former what was he?

Jeff: Prime Minister of Australia.

James: Prime Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd looking real ready gets up there to welcome Blinken and he opens up by saying you know how important that US-China relationship is, not just to the US and China, but to the whole world and listen to this, the future of the Pacific will depend upon “US policies bound to them”. So right there, top feature, I mean you go on the wrong foot. America makes the policies.

You know, one world orders the states around, blah blah blah. All the words that they use, Kevin Rudd is saying the future is American policies and China responds. If China would just lie down and let us mow over them, you know, you know what I mean? US policies and Chinese response. They gotta to wake up. It’s 2022, we can sit at the table and admit that some of these lines we drew in 1945, you know, it don’t make sense, now that there is a real China at the table.

Jeff: Well, that’s for sure. And then you talking about the Indo-Pacific, you know, the wild-card is India right now, which always very artfully, likes to play the middle game, because they have a very competitive relationship with China. They’re very close with Russia, the USSR previously, but they also want, I gagged a maggot when I saw that picture – when they had the meeting with, you know, with Albanese, the new Prime Minister of Australia and India, you know, Modi and was it Biden or was it Blinken? I didn’t remember who was there.

James: Biden and Blinken both.

Jeff: Yeah, both were there. Then the Prime Minister of Japan, I mean, it’s just, it’s a very, very contentious region of the world. It’s got 50% of the world GDP. It’s got a 30% of the world’s population all in that small area there in eastern Asia, and Southeastern Asia. And the United States can do nothing but try to destroy its enemies. Its biggest enemy in Asia, of course, is China.

And as you said, America lost against the North Koreans and the Chinese, in the Korean War, who were using World War II and World War I vintage arm,s had no Navy, limited air support from the Soviet Union, and the American lost in Korea. Another US trained army in South Korea and now you have Russia, which has probably the best military in the world. You have China, which probably has the second-best military in the world.

Because the ships are not painted in the US. Ships don’t work in the United States. Submarines are decommissioned. The F-35 can’t fly. They don’t have hyper-missiles, the United States. Russia has hyper-missiles. China has hyper missiles. North Korea has hyper-missiles and the US has no hyper-missiles. Plus the fact, both Russia and especially China, have an important military navy presence in the Pacific.

China’s navy would overwhelm Taiwan in one week with the massive naval fleet that they have built up since the 1980s. So, it’s just, I don’t know, James, it’s just frightening to think that the United States and its allies with their reptile brains – you know, they think like lizards – and they have no concept of maybe stepping back and as you said, read a history book. And look at the forest from the trees. Instead, they are just totally focused on total domination and they accept nothing less.

James: Well, I think they’re winning too, because if you can simplify the message, you know, McDonald’s is your kind of place, you know, Coke, the drink that refreshes. I mean, Taiwan equals Ukraine and that’s the president of the United States. And it’s simple, and it’s graspable and the press is running over there, you know. There’s only this recent history and I’m not talking about, see for me, there should be no conflict in the Taiwan situation, that it’s a long-lost brother province of the Chinese.

Let them reunite, there will be a little friction, but just let it happen like East and West Germany. You know, it’s just a historical thing and then there need not be war in the Pacific. China doesn’t need to, you know, up its Navy and have a lot of guys killed because it’s an undoable task, but I don’t want to argue it militarily. I want to say it’s a task that doesn’t need the US. It’s a false equivalency that Ukraine equals Taiwan. But Jeff, you’re out there in Europe, what about Ukraine equaling? What’s Ukraine equal these days?

Jeff: Well, Ukraine is simply a proxy war of NATO, Australia, New Zealand, what I like to call Eurangloland and more and more, you know, including Israel which is sending mercenaries to Ukraine. It’s a proxy war between Western Empire and the multipolar world, because Ukraine is essentially, it affects Iran, it affects China, it is affecting Africa. It is affecting the Middle East. It is affecting economies all over the world.

So, for me and I know people don’t like it when I bring this up, because capitalism is kind of like the Bible. You can’t question it. But to me, Ukraine is the tipping point. Ukraine is the last gasp of the wounded hyena of Western capitalism. It’s run its course. They cannot exploit the resources and enslave the people of Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Bolivia, Argentina, Peru, Ecuador, Chili, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. All these countries are saying, you know, even the Philippines, the new President Marcos.

James: Bongbong.

Jeff: Yeah, Bongbong he’s picking up the baton from Duterte. We are going to align with China. So, all these countries, you know, are just basically saying, Bretton Woods has run its course. It’s running out of gas. It has, you know, tens and tens and tens and tens of trillions of dollars of debt that will never be paid back. And as you said you know the United States couldn’t take on Mao and they’re definitely not going to take on the China of today. And the United States couldn’t take on Stalin and Khrushchev, and is definitely not going to take on Putin today. It’s just Ukraine is it.

I mean, that’s what scares me, is that it’s over. Russia has won. They just took over Liman yesterday. They are about to surround and choke off 15000 of Ukraine’s elite soldiers and Severodonetsk, it’s a big area next to the Donetsk. They have Mariupol. They will move on over to Odessa. And then they’re just piling up weapons that are being blown up by Russian missiles. What is the West going to do? They’re going to lose Ukraine.

I don’t think Russia has any choice, but to go all the way to the borders of Poland and Slovakia and Hungary and Romania and Moldova because otherwise, they will continue to pour billions and billions of dollars of arms into Ukraine to try to destroy Russia, in order to destroy later, China. So yeah, this is World War III stuff. I think I just saw, somebody was saying, I was just saw a headline before we connected, that was saying, it was actually on CovertAction Magazine.

Somebody was saying that this is like a 1914 World War I moment where, you know, the world, traipses into, ass backwards into World War. It’s all being driven by the United States, NATO and global capitalism. They’re need to exploit and enslave the world’s resources. Otherwise, it can’t work. Lenin, Stalin, Marx, Mao all said, capitalism can’t survive without war, and we’re seeing it right now.

James: But it’s not only the challenge to capitalism, I think that is all. But isn’t it an empire? I mean, it is the fall of capitalistic empire. But it’s really empire, the father of all this reaching out around the world to give a little perspective. Look, I’m in New Zealand and, you know, the Australians, I’m sorry to say, at least on the media regarding China, are absolutely crazy. There’s a former Defense Minister called Peter Dutton and he goes on TV and we have to rearm.

Australia jumps into the fight for America. There’s any fight between China and America Australia’s going to jump in and help our ally. And he talks like it’s World War II, you know they’re going to put on these boots and they’re going to wade onto shore and I mean there’s 25 million people in Australia. There 1.5 billion in China, you know, let’s look at the geography. So, Korea and Japan are going to fight with America, if there’s a World War, really? So, there’s what, 50,000 American troops on Okinawa in a nuclear war, what they would have is like a six-minute lifespan, maybe toast. You know, Korea next to China, I mean they can throw nuclear bombs like baseballs at the Caribbean.

Jeff: Same to North Korea.

James: So, North Korea. But I mean, why are these nations going to fight for the US with Taiwan. They’re already doing business with Taiwan. US would step back, there’s tremendous intercourse between all the countries of the Pacific in Taiwan. Things are okay. You know, they don’t, I mean, war is not needed. But if it is, we keep talking about our allies in the Indo-Pacific.

Indians going to fight China, there’s been a few fistfights between India and China, but India and China don’t want to go to war. Japan that’s really the US Marines going to war. You know, we got the troops in Japan. Same thing with Korea. Where is this help? We can’t even get our ports open on the West Coast. I’m not criticizing America, I’m just trying to say to anyone listening, that this war talk in these war games about fighting China, it’s ridiculous.

Jeff: Yeah, totally.

James: It’s start out ridiculous and it’s not worth talking about and then I back up and say what’s the problem? And the problem is a word salad of sovereignty and democracy and freedom and all this has just gotten a lot of people killed with American ammunition over the decades. The war machine is, you said, you know, it it’s not going to work with China but it’s too late in Ukraine, because NATO has jumped in head first and they’re going to lose. They’ve already lost.

James: They’ve already lost.

Jeff: Yes, they have already lost.

James: But the signatures are still same. On TV, they got fighting chances. We’re behind them and they’re misleading the American people.

Jeff: Well, I predict that the Russian people have no choice but to reintegrate all of Ukraine up to the borders of the EU. Because Poland is, you know, Poland is sort of the Peter Dutton of NATO. They are the attack dog. You know, the regional Rottweiler for the West. Poland is absolutely insane. You know it? And then the Russians are going to have to line the border of Europe of the European Union was top-tier tank divisions to keep these deranged, these Doctor No’s, they are insane the people governing in the West and the people behind them.

As you know, all the people behind Biden, these people are insane. It’s like Doctor No, it’s just unbelievable. And so anyway, it’s very scary and you’re far away, James, I’m in France. If there is a war, my daughter and my wife are going to be in the middle of it. You’re in New Zealand, so I can I can write you letters about what it’s like to be in a war.

James: Charles Nenner is a Dutch research guy and he studies war cycles, back to 3000 BC, back to the early Chinese Empires, whatever. And he says the cycle looks like big war next year. Martin Armstrong, other people say the same thing and he estimates it at two billion deaths. So, maybe we are moving. I mean, we’re at war, people are dying right now. American ammunition is out there on the field against Russia, that’s about as big as you can get.

Jeff: Yeah,

James: And it’s pretty brittle, the president saying yes will militarily involve in Taiwan so that right now I think t we can sign off, we have to say it’s about as hot as it can possibly be, without having a bigger war in Ukraine and a new war with China.

Jeff: Absolutely fingers crossed and hopefully something will keep all these predictions from Armstrong and Nenner from coming true. I think what’s going to happen next… It’ll just be obvious that Ukraine is lost, just like Korea was lost. Just like Vietnam was lost. Just like Afghanistan was lost. Just like Iraq was lost. Just like Iran was lost. Just like Syria is lost. Just like Libya was destroyed and lost

What’s going to happen when it occurs to the American people and the European people that they have been used, abused, insulted by their leadership and by their military industrial complex, to be impoverished. Are they, going to trigger a war or they going to, you know, back off and then try to put things back together again? We’ll see. But as you say, historically, it’s not very promising with the reptile brain leadership in the West.

James: Well, who knows,but we’re watching the world for everybody. I’m JB East, James Bradley signing off to Jeff Brown, JB West in Normandy.

Jeff: Thanks James. Bye, bye.

James: See you. Bye.

Jeff: Bye, bye.


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