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By Jeff J. Brown

Pictured above: Bruce Lerro, one of his books in hand, with the website he and his partner, Barbara MacLean produce, “Socialist Planning Beyond Capitalism”.

Sixteen years on the streets, living and working with the people of China, Jeff

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Introduction:

What a fun and fascinating discussion today with my guest Bruce Lerro. I learned a helluva lot from our discussion and I know you will too. Enjoy a great conversation and please share everywhere.

Bruce Lerro has taught for 25 years as an adjunct college professor of psychology at Golden Gate University, Dominican University and Diablo Valley College. He has applied a Vygotskian socio-historical perspective to his four books:

From Earth-Spirits to Sky-Gods: the Socio-ecological Origins of Monotheism, Individualism and Hyper-Abstract Reasoning

Power in Eden: The Emergence of Gender Hierarchies in the Ancient World Co-Authored with Christopher Chase-Dunn

Social Change: Globalization from the Stone Age to the Present

Lucifer’s Labyrinth: Individualism, Hyper-Abstract Thinking and the Process of Becoming Civilized

He is also a representational artist specializing in pen-and-ink drawings. Bruce is a libertarian communist and lives in Olympia WA.

Social media, contact info, book/publication links,

Website: https://socialistplanningbeyondcapitalism.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/planningbeyondcapitalism

Twitter: https://twitter.com/beyond_capital

Bruce’s books: https://www.amazon.com/kindle-dbs/entity/author/B00J1D3LGM

Discussion based on this article: https://www.greanvillepost.com/2023/02/15/the-thirteen-commandments-of-propaganda-its-construction-dissemination-and-internalization/

To access our first interview, click here: https://chinarising.puntopress.com/search/?q=lerro

On with the good fight!  Jeff

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Transcript:

Jeff J Brown (Host): Good evening, everybody. This is Jeff J. Brown China Rising Radio Sinoland in Normandy, France, on the beaches of D-Day. And I’ve got a wonderful guest on the show tonight for the second time, Mr. Bruce Lerro. How are you doing, Bruce?

Bruce Lerro (Guest): I’m doing great. I’m really looking forward to this conversation.

Jeff: I am, too. We had Bruce on, I guess maybe a year, I don’t know, in the last several months and it was about the psychology of socialism, communism versus capitalism. And in spite of the sort of sophisticated thinking actually, it was incredibly popular and tens of thousands of people watched it. So, we’ve been talking about having him on again. And he just wrote a wonderful article on the Greenville Post about propaganda.

And I said, well, why don’t we go ahead and take care of do this and maybe we can come back later and do part two of your psychology thing. So let me tell you about Bruce. He has taught for 25 years as an adjunct college professor of psychology at Golden State University, Dominican University, and Diablo Valley College. He has applied a Vygotskian if I pronounce that right, sociohistorical perspective to his books. And we talked about that psychologist in our first interview.

And his books include four books “From Earth Spirits to Sky Gods: The Socioecological Origins of Monotheism, Individualism, and Hyper-Abstract Reading”. This is not people magazine folks. The next book is “Power of Eden: The Emergence of Gender Hierarchies in the Ancient World”, co-authored with Christopher Chase Dunn. This is not US day-to-day newspaper. The third book “Social Change Globalization from the Stone Age to the Present” and the fourth book, “Lucifer’s Labyrinth Individualism, Hyper Abstract Thinking and the Process of Becoming Civilized”.

So, wow. Anyway, he is also a representational artist specializing in pen and ink drawings. Bruce is a libertarian communist and lives in Olympia, Washington, with his lovely wife, Barbara McLean. And we’ve all become friends through emails and Skype. So, I will have all of his website, Facebook, and Twitter, where you can buy his books as well as the reference in his article that I read and I want to share with you all today. So, thank you so much for being on, Bruce.

Bruce: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Jeff. I’m really looking forward to this.

Jeff: We will let fans read Bruce’s excellent article, 13 Commandments of Propaganda and Its Construction Dissemination Internalization to get into the details. But he has a wonderful intro at the beginning, and I thought that would probably be the most informative for the fans. And then if they want to get into the details of the 13 Commandments, they can do that. And today so we’ll look at the forest and not at the trees with a broader overview of the subject about propaganda.

And of course, with everything going on in the world today, Twitter, Facebook, Google, and everything else and the overarching national security state, it’s very, very relevant. Today’s article of discussion is actually a follow-up to a previous one entitled Jacques Ellul: Controversies and Propaganda. I will include that link. Please give us a brief introduction to Mr. Ellul and it’s pronounced the way it’s written Ellul. Go ahead.

Bruce: Okay. What I thought I would do, Jeff is just say Ellul was a sociologist and he wrote an astounding book in 1960 just called Propaganda. And I was amazed when I read the book at how timely it continues to be. I read that book about maybe 60 years after it was written, and it’s an extraordinary book. So, in introducing him, what I thought I would do is just say give some bullet points of the things he said about propaganda that he thought were myths.

In other words, these are things people think about propaganda, but it’s really not these things. The first thing is he broadened propaganda to make it not just political, it’s also sociological. So, he’s broadening propaganda beyond what the ruling classes are up to. And he says there’s sociology to it. And sociology is what he calls slow propaganda, like the propaganda that comes with like education and religion.

And these are like long-standing infrastructure for propaganda long before the political stuff comes in. The second thing is that he makes a distinction. I also found this interesting between propaganda and agitation. And what he says is when the working classes try to organize, what they’re doing is they’re agitating. They’re not using propaganda because propaganda is supposed to be only for the elites, the upper classes who have money.

So, I thought the inclusion of agitation was a good addition to thinking about working-class organizing. The third thing is, he makes a big deal about when propaganda gets the facts wrong. It’s not good propaganda. He thinks that what good propaganda is getting the facts right, but interpreting the facts in a twisted propagandist way. And I thought that was very interesting. Then the fourth thing that I think he’s really good about is that he talks about how propaganda has to work on the existing beliefs of people.

In other words, it can’t sort of inject its own ideology into people’s heads. It has to work with what people already believe, and it’s conservative that way. It tries to work with the stereotypes and the things that people already believe and try to twist them a little bit. But it doesn’t come out of anywhere and try to present something no one has ever heard of before. Then the last one is about a view that I think is interesting and he’s not alone in this.

He says it’s wrong to think that propaganda is trying to change people’s minds. What he says is what propaganda really wants to do is to get people to act differently, to behave. And he really says propaganda is about moving people to do things. It’s not about changing people’s minds because changing people’s minds is too difficult for propaganda. So anyway, that’s kind of an introduction to his work. He’s a real maverick.

Jeff: Is he French? Because his Jack is spelled the French Jacques. Is he actually from France?

Bruce: Yes. Yes.

Jeff: Okay. All right. And so, the book was either written in English or translated into English.

Bruce: Translated into English.

Jeff: Okay. All right. Interesting. Maybe I can even read it in French. Well, one of the things that I found rather interesting is he argued that propaganda served both the upper classes and the lower classes for different reasons. And we always, again, as we think of the controlling aristocratic elites using propaganda to manipulate the lower classes. But how can propaganda serve the lower classes and why and how?

Bruce: Okay. So, what I would say is what the ruling classes are up to is they’re trying to convince middle-class and upper-middle-class people around things like voting, and things to get on board. So, if you notice, I mean, to me, the people that are pro-Ukraine in the United States are primarily middle-class Americans, upper-middle-class Americans. I don’t think the working classes are really sold on this anti-war and anti-China anti-Russia.

But what Ellul says about the lower classes is that he goes deep into history and he says at the beginning of the 20th century, a lot of the things that the working class was used to like, like having stable families, having stable communities, having a stable village. He says all that was torn asunder. So, what he says is a lot of the propaganda for the lower classes is to try to give them comfort, to feel a stable situation.

And so, what he says is for the lower classes’ religion is very important because religion proposes a better life in the next world and so their propaganda towards the lower classes is to try to give them comfort to sort of get out of the way. And Ellul didn’t say this, but what I would add to this is sports. I think sports are very important for working-class people, largely because it gives people a sense that sport is very, it’s very structured, and there’s room for creativity in sports. And you sort of know at the end who won and who lost.

And that’s very important for people to have. And Ellul would say people in the lower classes are drowning in this ambiguity of not knowing where things are going. And so, sport is a kind of relief from that, and where it says, here’s a place where you can root for a team, you have a little make-believe community and you can win and lose, but know why. And it dissolves a lot of ambiguity. So, is that helpful to you?

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don’t know if those communities are make-believe, because I tell you I grew up in Oklahoma. If you go to Oklahoma or Oklahoma State for a football game or basketball game, it’s a real community. It’s really incredibly tight and has a lot of camaraderie and a lot of feeling of belonging and brotherhood in other words.

And so, he mentions two and I can barely pronounce these two words two propaganda techniques, with mithridatization, which actually sounds better in French and sensibilization. What are these two techniques? And can you please parse the two?

Bruce: Sure. The first one, which I can’t pronounce any better than you. This is about cooling people out. It’s propaganda that has the effect of making people set it like a sedative and it makes people relax and not get too excited. The other one is the opposite. Sensibilization is where you rile people up. So, propaganda needs both the cooling out and the arousing as well. So, if you go to any patriotic gathering, you’re going to get the sensitization because you’re going to get people all riled up and songs, right?

But then another kind is where you basically tell people and this is something I want to bring up, Jeff. This was not one of the questions, but I think it’s a really important part of the article that there’s such a thing as bureaucratic propaganda. And bureaucratic propaganda is designed to cool people out, to also give them a sense that there really is no hope. A really good example of that is the statistics on COVID, like we were keeping track of COVID over the months or so and we saw how the statistics got more and more vague as time went on.

They really didn’t want to keep track of this stuff. Another example of bureaucratic propaganda is the unemployment rate, when I look at economists say most economists, I know generally will say the real unemployment rate, when you factor in all the variables is about three times what the United States says it is. So, there’s also inflation. They give you numbers about inflation. It’s bureaucratic propaganda. Again, economists will say the rate of inflation is much higher. So, the sedative type of propaganda is often bureaucratic propaganda, which says there isn’t anything you can do about it.

Jeff: Yeah, a sense of hopelessness and powerlessness and apathy, to embed apathy so as not to get up out of your chair or not get up off your sofa. That’s right. And very interesting.

He has another one which I thought was interesting. And he even mentioned the Chinese Communists’ Horizontal Propaganda which was made inside the group versus vertical propaganda, which uses centralized power. An example of horizontal propaganda was the reeducation groups of Yankee soldiers organized by the Chinese communists during the Yankee imprisonment. Your thoughts, please?

Bruce: Yeah, what I thought was a really good example of what the Chinese did that was horizontal propaganda is they set up an essay question and they told the soldiers that the best essay question will get some kind of reduced time. And so, the purpose of the essay question was that the topic they gave them was that they had to denounce US foreign policy. Okay. And so, they have each person write propaganda. I mean, write the article. And this is where the horizontal stuff comes in. Then they had the soldiers meet in groups.

So, they met in groups with the articles that they had written, and they together as a group and criticized each other’s articles. Okay. And then they went back and they wrote some more. Then they went back into the group and they wrote and they criticized each other some more. So, the soldiers are thinking that’s okay, I’m simply going to win this essay to get reduced time. What they don’t understand is that all this group talks about this and about US foreign policy, is working propaganda against the United States through the group discussion.

Jeff: Okay.

Bruce: See? And horizontal propaganda is a very interesting point. I think another really good example of this that I wrote about in the article was an example of when soldiers, I forget where it was, when soldiers were asked to go through some horrible situation together and they made it through an ordeal and they said, they interviewed them afterward and they said, how did you do that? You must have been forced by your officers to do this. How did you ever do it? They commended them for their obedience. Most of the soldiers said it wasn’t about the authority figures. It was, I did not want to betray my comrades.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah.

Bruce: So, there’s your horizontal propaganda.

Jeff: Okay. Got it. All right. And of course, then the vertical propaganda is where it’s top-down and I guess you would probably say from the elites the 1% to the 99% and which is, I think what we see most. That’s really interesting about the horizontal propaganda, I guess the camaraderie, the solidarity, the mutual self-support.

Bruce: The horizontal propaganda is not created by the group. It comes top down, just like you said. But once the propaganda that’s centralized gets into the group, the group circulates the propaganda and keeps it alive, and maintains it.

Jeff: Interesting. This next one I really have a hard time with unlike most other theorists of propaganda, Ellul followed Joseph Goebbels, of course, he was the propaganda minister for the Nazis during World War Two and said that the best propaganda is based on facts. It becomes propaganda with the interpretation of facts. Propaganda based on lies is a sign of weakness. And do you agree or disagree? Because I see lots of propaganda based on lies these days, especially false flags and things like that. Tell us your thoughts on that.

Bruce: Yeah. So, I think there are three kinds of propaganda. There’s white propaganda, gray propaganda, and black propaganda. The white and gray propaganda, they usually based on real facts that are then interpreted in a different way, which makes it propaganda. Usually, white and gray propaganda, when the propagandists are using white and gray, it usually means they have a great deal of control over the population. When they use black propaganda, it’s really where they makes up facts. It’s a sign of weakness, meaning…

Jeff: They aren’t controlling the masses. Okay.

Bruce: They aren’t controlling the masses. And they’re trying to go top-down without facts included in anything. So, his point is that black propaganda is really, it’s a sign that the rulers have lost control of their population.

Jeff: Okay, I see. All right, I got it. Then I would say that the West right now must be very weak, because most of the propaganda is black.

Bruce: Yes.

Jeff: Most of the propaganda is just based on lie after lie after lie after lie. It’s just unreal. So, Russia, Russia, Russia, China, China, China, Trump, Trump, Trump. I can now see that. And that would indicate to me that the United States and its vassals in Europe and Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, North America, NATO, and Israel, what Vladimir Putin calls the Golden Billion in the human population must be quite weak right now, because it’s just it’s surreal. It’s like a simulacrum of reality.

And I would say that China, most of China’s propaganda is white and gray because they really do seek truth from facts. And I think they treat their people with a lot more respect. And respect for their intelligence and respect for their ability to interpret and analyze things than in the West, where it just almost seems like it’s just like shock value and scary and fear etc.

So, unlike other theorists, Ellul makes a distinction between ideology and myth and argues that myth is more powerful. Now we actually discussed myth in our first interview about socialist-communist psychology versus capitalist psychology. What do you think? Because I would say that communist-socialist China would disagree, where since 1949 with the liberation of the country. For them, Ideology is everything. So, is it because the systems are different or do you believe myth is more important than ideology? Of course, we try to stamp out ideology. Here in the West, there is no class. There’s no class war. Tell us what you think.

Bruce: Well, I think what Ellul was getting at with myth is that he’s saying that there’s like political myths of like, say, the origin of countries like the United States, George Washington chops down the cherry tree. It’s a story of how things start. And then you have religious myths which are about in the West, in the United States and Western Europe, it’s the golden age the myth of the golden age.

I think what he’s saying is that we underestimate the power of those myths to control how we think about the world, like those myths are more powerful than we give them credit for. And so, people like Carl Jung would say myth is really where it’s at. And modern people don’t understand that. But I think you’re right that I think that socialism even though it’s 170 years old, it has a well-developed body of knowledge.

It has an ideology. And the ideology is like 170 years old. And I think for people that have become socialists and especially in places like China or Cuba or any of the actually existing socialist countries, that ideology is stronger than the myths because the ones that, for example, believe in have become atheists. The ideology is more important than the myth. So, I think people are serious socialists, even if they’re not living in a socialist country.

The ideology of socialism is really stronger than the myths. So, I think socialism is really an exception to that. I think Ellul didn’t see that because he wasn’t a socialist. And it’s like he probably did not think a whole lot of socialism. I don’t know this, but he was probably insensitive to the power of that ideology to move people.

Jeff: Okay. All right. Well, this next one for me comes about was a bit of a shocker. And of course, he did write this in 1960. And Charles de Gaulle was just liberating, although they were still fighting, they didn’t finish the Algerian War until 1962. And colonialism and imperialism were still in existence officially. And Ellul said psychological propaganda in foreign countries does not work. Propagandists are too ignorant of the attitudes, centers of interest, presuppositions, and suspicions of the foreign population.

I don’t know about you, Bruce, but that sounds very racist and condescending to me. For example, the Chinese have had an official censor for over 2,000 years. This position still exists today. Right now, in China today, there is an official censor and so for 2,000 years to guarantee social harmony and these days especially, toprevent color revolutions of their times. So, your thoughts please, because I thought that was kind of shocking.

Bruce: Yeah. I think this is my fault, Jeff. What I think I called Psychological Propaganda, but it really is what I meant was psychological warfare. So, what Ellul was saying is that attempts, for example, of the United States to propagandize the German people against their rulers that doesn’t work. Okay?

So, like when they do these flyovers with pamphlets and things like that, to try to convince the population that the rulers are not conducting the war right or they should give up or something like that, Ellul says that really does not work. And so that’s, I think, different from the way you’re interpreting it. And I think that’s not your fault. I used the wrong word. I should have said psychological warfare.

Jeff: Oh, warfare. Okay. So psychological warfare in foreign countries does not work. Okay. All right.

Bruce: And the ruling class is it’s because the propagandists in their own country don’t really understand the psychology and culture of the other countries. So, I mean, they don’t really mean to me, the elitist propagandists say in this country, they don’t even understand their own working classes. And that’s the reason why this anti-Russia, anti-China, anti-Iran, they really don’t work with working-class people in this country. It’s like they’re tuned out of that.

Jeff: Yeah.

Bruce: Those people go to another country and try to propagandize the working-class population of another country is ridiculous. They’re completely ignorant of it. And if they can’t even do it in their own country, they’re not going to do it someplace else.

Jeff: Right. Good point.

Bruce: So, I’m sorry about the misspelling. I think that was confusing.

Jeff: Yeah, don’t worry about it. All of this we’ve been talking about propaganda in modern times, but it seems to me the elites at least as far as the vertical propaganda, going back to Mesopotamia, Egypt, Persia, Greece, and Rome they were doing the same thing, not to mention the Medieval Catholic Church. And I read a wonderful, wonderful biography of Napoleon Bonaparte. He was actually a socialist democrat, which is why they’ve tried to destroy his image. But anyway, with monarchical Europe declaring war on the French Revolution in 1789, Napoleon had to heavily control the media from fifth columnists and saboteurs.

And a lot of people don’t know that the French Monarchs called in German troops to massacre 30,000 supporters of the Paris Commune in 1871. They literally filled the streets of Paris with blood and they instituted a total media blackout in 1871, which is still true today. Very few people know that it’s true. And then later on in the 19th century, it appears that 20th-century Edward Bernays, who wrote his book Propaganda, was very inspired by the propaganda techniques of Cecil Rhodes’s 19th-century founding of the Secret Society. Your thoughts on the timeline of Propaganda, please?

Bruce: Okay. It’s a very interesting question. So first of all, I mean, I would say like people sometimes say, well, when did propaganda start? I mean, when did it begin? Does it go all the way back to hunting and gathering societies? I don’t think so. I think the place that it starts is in class societies, because propaganda, if you take Mesopotamia or you take Egypt, you have a tiny portion of the population that’s ruling. The overwhelming majority of people are peasants or slaves. They don’t have any power.

So, what you need is an ideology to explain how come they’re up there. Those people are down here. Right? And that’s how the idea that’s how the propaganda starts. I think in those societies, you have to remember that in the Bronze Ages, they didn’t use, they had picture writing, but they really not writing. It wasn’t like the alphabet. And they really could not use written forms of propaganda. So, what they did was, they did a lot of propaganda that’s based on the use of space. And so, they make these huge monuments.

They would do things like every time the ruler would be speaking, they would make sure that the ruler was way above the population. Because I used to do this in my classes. I would sit down and face the students straight on. I would get on the floor so I had to look up at them and then I would stand on the desk and look down at them. And I’d say to them, what’s the difference in my messages?

And overwhelmingly, they said, when you were standing up, we were much more likely to listen to you and when you were standing on the desk. So, I think they used and they still use this kind of stuff like there’s no accident that in the churches, the pastor or the priest is always above the population looking down, never at eye level. And the ceilings of the buildings are always high ceilings. Right. And the purpose of that is to make you feel small. So, a lot of spatial stuff during those periods of time.

And then, of course, the Catholic Church was a master of propaganda, because they were using the imagery of the stations of the cross. I mean, they were experts and they do all sorts of things, like they saturate the senses, with incense and candles. They’re creating an altered state of consciousness. The Catholic Church to me is like, I don’t know if it is the master, but right up there when it comes to propaganda, because they really know how to move people.

And they are able to do it for the most part without writing because it was the Protestants who made a big thing out of writing and reading, writing the Bible. The Catholics didn’t have that, at least until the 17th century. And so, they had to rely on imagery. So, the history of propaganda is sort of a movement from manipulating space, to manipulating images. And then later on after the printing press, then it becomes more literary and it becomes stuff in writing, right?

Jeff: Yeah. Well, living here in Catholic France, I must say, even though I am an atheist, that’s who I am. But there’s nothing more spectacular than a Catholic service. I mean, a mass, it’s so beautiful and it’s so moving and it’s just spectacular. I could just sit there in a Catholic mass and just soak it all up because it’s just so amazing.

Bruce: Yeah. In fact, I was raised Catholic, so I went to masses, but I also went to Catholic schools. Barbara was raised with a Christian Science background. And what’s really funny is she tells a story of how she and her friend Lenny. Lenny was Catholic and Lenny took her to a Catholic mass.

And Barbara had the same reaction as you did. She thought this is so cool. All these pictures, all this standing and moving and kneeling. And I said to her, that’s fine on Sundays, but when you go to school, you go to Catholic School, you get hit, you get all sorts of stuff. I mean, there’s a whole dark side to it. People got the family values, family approved movie rating of the Catholic Church. I got the real thing.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I guess even though I’m an atheist, I’m actually a very deeply spiritual person. So, I think that’s why it’s so powerful for me when I go see a Catholic mass, because I am spiritual and the whole thing is an extremely spiritual experience.

So well, Bruce, before we sign off, this has been wonderful. What are you working on now? Are you writing another book or are you enjoying your retirement or are you going to keep writing some articles for The Greenville Post?

Bruce: Thank you for asking. Retiring is not in my vocabulary. I’ll always be working. I’m continuing to write articles for our website. I’ve just come out with a new book. It’s called The Magical Enchantment of Materialism. And the subtitle is Why Marxists Need Neopagans. Okay?

Jeff: That’s original.

Bruce: Yeah. Yeah. And so, in a nutshell, what I’m trying to do is to say there are neo-pagans who are very good at creating meaningful rituals that are not like the religious rituals of the Catholic mass and the monotheists, they’re really non-reified rituals. And my point is, I think socialism really, at least in the United States, needs the liveliness of rituals in their gatherings. And so, my book is about why that needs to happen.

Jeff: We actually discussed that in our first interview about the need for myths and rituals like the Catholic Church.

Bruce: That’s right.

Jeff: They are so powerful and so moving. So, you just came out with a new book. Will that be on the link for Amazon, when I give the people the link? So, you actually have five books out now?

Bruce: Yes.

Jeff: Man, you’re amazing. Amazing.

Bruce: Thank you.

Jeff: Well, listen, this has been a lot of fun. Bruce Lerro who is a psychology professor. He is a socialist-communist. So, it’s a different perspective and it’s fascinating. And I think it was like 25,000 or 30,000 people who accessed our first interview. I can tell you it’s worth looking into, and I’ll leave that link as a precursor for those who have not had a chance to watch or read it.

And I’ll put everything else here. You can get in contact with him on his website www.socialistplanningbeyondcapitalism.org. And I hope maybe your numbers have picked up a little bit since we had our last interview. And so, thank you so much. And I’ll get this out to you and you can promote it.

Bruce: Thank you. And Jeff, where how long would it be before you send me the link to the actual interview we’ve just done?

Jeff: Well, now I’m working with an editor and now I have committed that, after too many years, I will not put out the audiovisual without the transcript. So, the first thing I do is, transcribe it with artificial intelligence and it transcribes it into text. And then he does a really, really good job of getting 90% of it correct. And then I have to go back in and do a final polish. And then once that is done, then I can go back and then I do the audio and visual. So, I would say it’s probably going to be, and I’ve got this thing on my head, this little cancer here. I’m getting it cut out on the ninth. So, it’ll be probably 2 or 3 days before it’s finally ready. I’ll let you know.

Bruce: Okay, that sounds great, Jeff.

Jeff: All right.

Bruce: Yes.

Jeff: Thank you so much.

Bruce: Thank you so much for having me, Jeff. It’s always fun to talk to you.

Jeff: And a nice Buddhist, Daoist, Confucian bow and wish you and Barbara the best.

Bruce: Thank you so much, Jeff. Take care of yourself.

Jeff: Bye-bye.

Bruce: Bye-bye.

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Do yourself, your friends, family and colleagues a favor, to make sure all of you are Sino-smart: 

Google ebooks (Epub) and audiobooks:

44 Days Backpacking in China: The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=YBKHEAAAQBAJ

https://play.google.com/store/audiobooks/details?id=AQAAAECCkQXRlM

China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=YNmLEAAAQBAJ

https://play.google.com/store/audiobooks/details?id=AQAAAECCfHo86M

BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=6Wl4EAAAQBAJ

https://play.google.com/store/audiobooks/details?id=AQAAAECCfHo86M

Amazon print and ebooks (Kindle):

44 Days Backpacking in China: The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1484939999/

China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations

https://www.amazon.com/China-Rising-Capitalist-Socialist-Destinations/dp/0996487042

BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution

https://www.amazon.com/BIG-Red-Book-China/dp/1673322719/

Author page:

https://www.amazon.com/Mr.-Jeff-J.-Brown/e/B00TX0TDDI

Praise for The China Trilogy:

https://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/06/30/praise-for-the-china-trilogy-the-votes-are-in-it-r-o-c-k-s-what-are-you-waiting-for/

Why and How China works: With a Mirror to Our Own History

44 Days Backpacking in China: The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass

China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations

 

 

 

 

 

 

BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution

Read it in your language • Lealo en su idioma • Lisez-le dans votre langue • Lies es in deniner Sprache • Прочитайте это на вашем языке • 用你的语言阅读

Wechat group: search the phone number +8619806711824 or my ID, Mr_Professor_Brown, friend request and ask Jeff to join the China Rising Radio Sinoland Wechat group. He will add you as a member, so you can join in the ongoing discussion.

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