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Nima R. Alkhorshid: Jeff, let’s get started with the situation in Bangladesh and the importance of this country when it comes to Russia, China, and India. Who’s benefiting from this coup, this type of control in Bangladesh?

Jeff J. Brown: Three guesses in the first two don’t count. But first off, I would like to thank you for having me back on. I love your work. I watch your videos, you do a wonderful job and I’m humbled and honored to work with you today. So thank you very much. In fact, I just did an article with Sputnik News asking the same question. This was clearly an American-style Color Revolution even Sheikh Hasina, now a deposed prime minister who’s been a lifelong politician for the Bangladeshi people going back to the early 2000s.

And so this was clearly an American push. It was a coup d’etat. And it boiled down to the United States extorting her to give the United States control of Saint Martin Island. Saint Martin Island is only three square kilometers, but it’s big enough for an airstrip and a military base. She said no and so she had to go. And it’s very similar to Hong Kong in 2019, very similar to Maidan in 2014 in Ukraine, very similar to Tiananmen in 1989, in June. This is how the United States conducts diplomacy either with blackmail, bribery, extortion, Color Revolutions, False Flags, fake news, or assassinations.

And so they conducted what is called an Astroturf Protest, which was just like in Iran when they got rid of Mossadegh back in 1950, whatever it was that was an Astroturf Protest organized out of the US embassy, paying these guys to go out on the street, create havoc, kill people, and destabilize the government. There are even pictures. I even have pictures and videos from Hong Kong showing people paying the protesters cash on the sidewalks to go protest. So this is how the United States works when someone wants to be independent and free of Western tyranny. So they got rid of her. They sent out the goons.

It was organized. And of course, George Soros, I’m sure has hundreds of NGOs in a country like Bangladesh. They are there to overthrow governments that do not bend their knees and kiss the boots of Uncle Sam. And she left the country to save lives. That’s what she said in a follow-up interview. The reason that Saint Martin is so important is its geographic location. It’s literally it goes it’s actually directly across from Myanmar. I mean, it’s an island at the very tip of Bangladesh in the southeast corner of Bangladesh. And right there is Myanmar. And guess what’s right there in Myanmar?

The Rohingya Muslims and all of that chaos that the United States is causing in Myanmar frustrates China’s port because China built a port in the Rohingya districts. The Rohingyas are Muslims. And so they’re being used to create havoc against the Myanmar government. Again, Astroturf NGOs causing all of this. So it’s right there. I mean, it’s just literally you can skip a stone from Saint Martin to Myanmar. So there’s one Chinese ally that’s now going to get an American Airbase literally spitting distance away from it. And there’s Thailand is right there. Malaysia is right there. They’re in ASEAN.

So this is a big, big deal. Now of course NATO has Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, but it’s way down below the equator. I mean it’s in the Southern Hemisphere. And so it’s a long way away from the action. I mean, it’s a place to keep bombers as a logistics point. But Saint Martin is just prime real estate for the empire. And of course, Bangladesh and Pakistan are right up there with Russia and China. I mean, from the viewpoint of the Western Empire, it was a major success because Yonus, the guy that the United States literally, practically appointed to take over for her because once she left the American embassy, pretty much took over.

And so he is a Western tool. He did some nice things with his micro-financing, but he’s a Western tool and he will definitely give the United States Saint Martin sign a contract, a leasing contract for probably some umpteen years, at least 30 years or something like that or 50 years. And they’re going to turn Saint Martin Island into Okinawa, like in Japan, which is literally an aircraft carrier in Japan for the United States. That’s where most of the United States military personnel and military bases are in Okinawa.

So it’s bad news for Russia. I mean, now they’re going to be able to put in reconnaissance and intelligence right there. Russia and China are not very far away. India is right next door. And the United States can use now Saint Martin to say, listen, we’ve got Saint Martin. Now, come be with us for the Asian Quad, what they call the Quad with Japan, the United States, Australia, and India. So, yeah, Nima, it’s not good news. I hate to say it but it’s not good news for the global South. And it’s not good news for China. It’s not good news for Russia. And it’s not good news for India.

Nima: Yeah because the government in Bangladesh had a very good relationship with India, and we know that Bangladesh is part of the Belt and Road Initiative.

Jeff: Oh, yeah.

Nima: This is all going to change then. It seems that do you think that at the end of the day, the main reason would be just putting some pressure on India because recently they have been just talking with Russians? It seems that the United States was not successful in distancing India from Russia. That’s why they’re trying to do these manipulations in that region. Do you find any sort of activity that implies they want to force India to come back into the Western Agenda? What the United States is looking for in that region?

Jeff: Well, by having a major military base literally at the delta of the Bay of Bengal right across. I mean, I haven’t gotten out of Calipers to see how far Saint Martin is from India. I mean, from Myanmar, it is not more than a few kilometers, but it can’t be more than a couple of hundred kilometers or 300km from India. It’s that close. And of course, they’re going to use it. There was a wonderful quote by a former UN general secretary. Oh. Who’s the one I’ve quoted this many times? The former Egyptian. He was an Egyptian.

What was his name? Anyway, he was a general secretary of the UN, and in his private papers after he resigned or retired or whatever, he said in his private papers and I’m paraphrasing, but it’s pretty close. He said America does not do diplomacy. America only knows how to tell other countries what to do. He paraphrased that by saying I got into diplomacy thinking that this was a way for people to work together, even if they have differences and they come out with a mutual decision. And he had all these high ideals when he went to university to study diplomacy and all that. But he said, Americans don’t do it.

He said empires don’t do diplomacy. The Romans didn’t do diplomacy. You either did what the Romans told you to do or you got destroyed. Well, that concept of empire is no different for the United States. America does not do diplomacy. America sits down and tells you what you’re going to do. And if you don’t, you’re going to pay a price. We’re going to destroy your economy. We’re going to sanction you. Someone may get assassinated. There may be some military activity in your area.

The United States does not play nice. There’s no negotiation. There’s just you do what the United States says or we’re going to roll over you. So India’s problem is, is it wants to be in both camps. Of course, it was a British colony for 300 years, the crown jewel of the British Empire. So it’s very westernized. Basically, the British were replaced by pardon, but they were basically replaced by brown-skinned, anglicized, elitist leaders who didn’t have a lot in common with the 1.5 billion Indians on the street. So they’re very anglicized.

They’re very Westernized other than having that good relationship with Russia after independence with Nehru and arms buying all their military equipment or most of their military equipment from Russia or the Soviet Union at the time. But it’s a country that just wants to be friends with Russia and wants to be friends with the United States. They’re playing the same game that the British have always played for centuries and centuries divide and conquer, play one off against the other. And a lot of other countries do that. But India is big and it’s important.

So you can imagine that the way the United States does business and diplomacy, if India doesn’t bend the United States could very easily threaten them, cause them problems, elliptical problems that are not directly but behind closed doors, et cetera. I tell you that little three square kilometer island is worth a lot to the Western Empire, and they’re going to use it against India. They’re going to use it against China via Burma. Well, Myanmar these days. Sorry, I’m an old guy. Used to be Burma. Now it’s Myanmar. But Russia is just right up there above Bangladesh and India. It’s a nightmare for the global South. It’s a nightmare. So that was a sad day to see that happen.

Nima: One of the very important political moves on the part of China when it comes to the Middle East was that they brought all these groups, the Syrian groups, together to make an agreement between these Palestinian groups. And we consider that, in your opinion, what’s going on in the minds of the Chinese right now when it comes to the Middle East? How do they understand what’s going on and what’s their official position? Because we don’t know what they’re thinking of so far. It’s not clear to us in the Western media because we’re not talking about them a lot. In your opinion, when it comes to the Middle East and the situation right now between Iran and Israel and the situation in Gaza, how do they feel about it?

Jeff: The Chinese actually believe in the United Nations Charter, just like the Russians and the Iranians do, and the North Koreans and most other countries in the world, Western empire, NATO, Western Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand, they do not honor the United Nations Charter, which is to not interfere in the internal governance of other countries. And that’s all the West does, and that’s all the West has been doing for hundreds of years. And of course, China is very much involved in the…

I’m having brain burps today, but the big meeting in Indonesia back in 1964 or something. But Zhou Enlai switched planes and lived because the US CIA put a bomb on his plane and he switched planes all those people died, and Zhou Enlai lived. They strictly believe in this. They really, really believe in this. That’s why so many people, and countries enjoy working with China because you’re not going to get the Color Revolution package if you work with China. If you work with anybody from West France, Germany, England, even Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, you are immediately in danger of color revolution machinations.

China does not do that. They really, really adhere to that, and people like that. So they’re not going to get involved in the Middle East as the United States does. They’re not going to go in and tell them what to do. They’re trying to do classic 20th-century diplomacy where they’re trying to bring people together. They’re trying to create conversation. They’re trying to create consensus. They’re trying to come up with some ideas to resolve this problem. They’ve come out with their peace plan that everybody loved except Zelensky.

And of course, the United States didn’t like it and NATO didn’t like it. So this is how China works. I mean, they’re constantly talking. They’re constantly in airplanes. They’re constantly going to countries. In fact, I just saw Wang Yi, the foreign minister was in Thailand today. And they’re talking about more cooperation there. The Chinese realize that every country in the Middle East except Iran is occupied by the US military. I don’t know about Lebanon, but I don’t know if there are any American soldiers in Lebanon, but everywhere else, there are thousands of American soldiers and materiel in the Gulf monarchies (Egypt, Syria, Iraq).

Turkey, of course, is NATO. So I think they realized their limits. I mean, they’re not going to go up against the United States in a way that’s going to be confrontational in the Middle East. They’re going to just keep plugging away. Diplomats are some of the most patient, indulgent people in the world. When something doesn’t work, they just keep trying this angle. And if that angle doesn’t work, they try this angle. And if it doesn’t work, then let’s go talk to these people and diplomats are amazing people. And so they’re just looking for solutions to an intractable situation. And it’s also good. It’s also good soft power.

I mean, let’s face it, they have an image to keep overseas. The Chinese are just like everybody else. They want to look good in front of the John Q public in the Middle East, Europe, North America, Africa and everywhere else. So that’s not the major reason they’re doing this, but for them, it’s the benefit of looking diplomatic, looking holistically at the situation. And it’s also good for the image of the government back home because the Chinese government can say, look at what we are trying to do while the United States and Israel are killing tens of thousands of people in Palestine, look what we’re doing.

So they can convey to their own people that they are doing what the United Nations Charter is all about. Oh, yeah, the Bandung Conference, the Bandung Conference in Indonesia. I think it was 1966, something like that. And that’s where the Nonaligned Movement got started. The 77 countries and China’s included. That’s where the Nonaligned Movement got started, which was to stay away from the Soviet Union or stay away from the United States and try to be independent.

So that’s what they’re doing. And they’re going to keep looking for solutions. They’re going to keep trying to get people to hold hands like they got Saudi Arabia and Iran to work together and reestablish diplomatic relations. And now they’re both in BRICS and has Saudi Arabia joined SCO? I’m not sure, but Iran has joined SCO, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. So that’s all. They’re just doing what diplomats do best and that is talk create dialog and in that dialog try to find solutions as improbable as it probably is.

Nima: You talk about diplomats. And if we assume that the main duty of a diplomat would be making compromises and cooperation through talks and negotiations, do we have any diplomats left in Washington in your opinion, or do we have Bill Burns right now talking with in negotiations in Qatar? And Bill Burns is a diplomat, but he’s not in his place. He’s head of the director of the CIA. But why he couldn’t be the Secretary of State of the United States? That would be much better for the United States. But beyond that, do you see? Because he’s not working. He shows the current conflict in Ukraine. And right now in the Middle East, we don’t see any sort of diplomatic attitude in Washington.

Jeff: I’ll be honest with you, Nima. I think after World War Two, the Americans probably from 1945 until 1990 with competition with the Soviet Union, the Cold War that long Cold War period, they probably had more cooperation and more consensus than now. But, once the Soviet Union was out of the picture and they felt like it was the end of history and that capitalism, Western capitalism, which America is the shining beacon of global capitalism, I think at that point they quit.

They switched to global cop mode and became very, very ugly and this is what I was talking about where the former secretary general of the UN, the Egyptian was saying they don’t do diplomacy, they just don’t do diplomacy. And also when China sends diplomats, they’re looking for win-win cooperation. And you can throw it in Europe. I mean, look at Joseph Borrell, the foreign secretary of the European Union. I mean, he’s arrogant, he’s hubristic. He says insulting racist things to people who he’s trying to work with.

That’s the same thing that the United States does with the people it works with. So it’s not just the United States, it’s this Western empire mentality. So especially since 1990 with the fall of the US, I don’t think there are any diplomats and there certainly aren’t any right now. Look at, Look at… I’m having terrible brain burps today, Nima. I’m sorry. We’re taking care of our two grandkids. So we got grandkids, and so I’m dead. The former secretary of state for Trump, Mike. what’s his name?

Nima: Mike Pompeo.

Jeff: Yeah, Mike Pompeo. He said when we were in the CIA, we lied, we cheated. They’re proud of this. They’re proud of their arrogance. They’re proud of what they can get away with. And look what they’re getting away with in Palestine. Look what they’re getting away with in Syria. Look what they’re getting away with in Libya. It’s just it goes on and on and on. And so no, there’s no diplomats, there’s just enforcers like the Mafia. They come in. It reminds me of that story.

The guy who wrote the book “I Was A Prostitute For The CIA” is a German journalist and he said if they can’t flatter you, if they can’t buy you off then what they do is two guys with literally black suits and black ties show up with briefcases, and that’s when the extortion comes in. You want your wife to live or here are pictures of your children leaving school. Are you worried about them? That’s how the United States works.

That’s how the West works. And so they’re not diplomats, they’re gangsters, basically. And I mean, I’m sure there are probably some idealistic guys and some of the smaller countries and some of the smaller less important countries in the world, but the big Russia, China, India, Europe North America, the big important countries that they’re trying to control, I’m sure I don’t think there’s any, any diplomats, just thugs.

Nima: The other thing that just recently, last week, I think this week we learned that the United States, just the Biden administration said we are going to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia. We are going to change our policy toward Saudi Arabia by selling weapons to them. In your opinion, what are the main objectives of changing the policy? And do they really think that that would benefit their position in Saudi Arabia by doing this?

Jeff: First off, I want to go back to the former. I just looked it up while you were asking the question. The former UN secretary-general. The Egyptian who wrote about how the United States does not do it was Boutros Boutros-Ghali. Well, the United States is just seeing that they’re losing Saudi Arabia. I mean, Saudi Arabia made that wonderful agreement with Nixon back in 1972 or 1973. We will only accept US dollars for our oil which at that time was the biggest oil producer in the world. It had a huge presence. Of course, now there’s Iran and Venezuela and Nigeria and Russia who’ve really come online.

And so Saudi Arabia is not as important as it used to be. But back then, Saudi Arabia signed a pact with the devil to be protected by the US military which doesn’t speak well for the leadership there, they don’t have enough trust in their people but they have to have the US military on their territory to protect the monarchy. But Saudi Arabia got BRICS and Saudi Arabia is looking at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, and Saudi Arabia loves the Belt And Road Initiative, and Saudi Arabia has its own 2030 this wonderful, visionary Chinese development program for the country.

Who’s getting most of the contracts to build all of that infrastructure? China. Now Saudi Arabia has broken the rule that they will only sell their oil in dollars and now they’re accepting Chinese yuan. They’re accepting other currencies are doing cross-border currency exchanges with their customers. This was a case where the United States had to eat a little bit of crow, humble crow, and try to get Saudi Arabia back into its orbit. But I think it’s too late. I think MBS, Mohammed bin Salman, I think he’s kind of sick of the United States.

I think he’s just fed up. I know, he’s treated Biden and Blinken extremely coldly. It really, really, almost insulting them. I know in one case, I think it was when Biden visited him where they sat at a coffee table and they’ve got the two flags. There was no American flag. There was only the Saudi flag. They didn’t even put the American flag out. So, I think Mohammed bin Salman, I think he’s just a bit fed up. And if the United States wants to sell him some more arms why not?

But I don’t think it’s going to do anything to change Saudi Arabia’s baptism Schism in global cooperation with China, with Russia. I mean now MBS and Putin call each other. XI Jinping, the president’s been there. I think Saudi Arabia will continue to drift away from the American orbit. But you’re never a free country if you’re militarily occupied. And Saudi Arabia has got several thousand US troops there. And that’s something that they’ll have to deal with later down the road if they want to try to do that. But I think with the instability in the region, it’s a counterweight against Iran.

I mean, they’re working together, but still, they’re not kissing each other. They’re shaking hands. They’re not kissing each other. So there’s still some probably some reluctance to totally embrace Iran and then you’ve got the nightmare in Syria and Iraq. So, I think they’ll probably not ask the US military to leave like Mali, Burkina Faso, and Niger have done in Africa, asking all the NATO troops to leave their countries and they got them out. But I don’t think Saudi Arabia will do that any time soon.

Nima: And in the conflict in the Middle East, we had Shoigu going to Iran, and the head of Centcom went to Israel. At the same time, we had Shoigu in Iran. How close are the relationships between Iran and Russia right now? We know that they’re going to sign a military agreement between these countries, but how about having a security agreement? Do you think they’re getting to that point?

Jeff: Well, they are already members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. So Shanghai Cooperation Organization is officially military/economic. So they already are at least honor-bound to help each other in the SCO. I think the big thing that Russia and Iran need to do is to get one of these 25-year comprehensive agreements signed. I think the last I heard, they were working on it unless you’ve heard something differently like what China has done with Iran in this big 25-year multifaceted agreement for infrastructure everything telecommunications, oil, gas, ports, military. I mean, that’s what they need to do.

And I think I know last year they were sitting down and saying, we’ve really got to get this hammered out. And I don’t know how close they are now. And of course, now with Iran having a new president unexpectedly, that sure doesn’t help. But I recall Putin called the new Iranian president and congratulated him. I think they now have this north-south corridor the rail and ship corridor from Russia to Iran. I think they’re working a lot closer together than when people realize. The Russians don’t brag.

They’re very subdued. They don’t come out and a lot of fanfares were doing this and we’re doing that. And they’re very understated in their diplomacy and cooperation with other countries. And whereas China kind of gets all the flash with the BRI, the Belt and Road initiative. I think Iran and Russia are working probably a lot more closely than people realize. And I don’t know if it’s true or not but there was the story that after Iran, not this last assassination, but when Iran bombed Israel.

What was it? Sometime last year. And it hit him pretty hard. They had their hypersonic missiles that the Israelis could not touch. The rumor was, is that Iran and Israel sent an F-35 with a small nuclear bomb to fly over Tehran and drop it, not to really kill anybody, but to create a massive electromagnetic burnout. So to burn out all their telecommunications and all of their electricity, and the rumor was, is that Russia shot that plane down.

So I don’t know. Pepe Escobar brought it up and he asked like 2 or 3 guys, and they said it was true. So if Russia did that for Iran, that means they’re pretty tight. There’s no proof that it happened. But as soon as it left Jordanian territory or something, they shot it down between Jordan. I think they’re doing fine. They’re also talking about trying to come up with this money exchange with the BRICS coming up with the special drawing rights. I think they’re not kissing on screen but I think they’re taking care of business.

Nima: And with the situation when it comes to this situation right now in Ukraine and this Ukrainian attack on the Kursk region, do you think that Russia is losing its patience toward NATO and the way that NATO is operating helping Ukrainians to do whatever they want in that region?

Jeff: Oh my God, Nima. I heard you had on Dimitri Orlov this week. And he was saying, well they’re just waiting for the US empire to collapse. Well, I’m frustrated. You’re frustrated. Everybody’s frustrated that Russia just seems like they have until the 22nd century for this thing to end. And this horrible thing happens. They blow up a dam. And then they attack the big nuclear power center. And there’s all this bluster that this is the last time and this is the last time. And now they’re in Russian territory and they’re saying, this is the last time.

Although this time Putin actually said it. And it wasn’t just Medvedev, the former prime minister who said it. But I think we could be waiting a long time for the US empire to collapse. I mean, the British Empire really collapsed in 1904-1905, after the Boer Wars in South Africa. They were bankrupt, and they were literally bankrupt. The only thing that kept them going is they got the gold and diamond mines in South Africa. Then they planned, meticulously planned World War One to keep the ball going and take out Germany, which they did.

And then they connived to get Hitler into power so that they could try to get Russia’s resources. And that didn’t work. And America ended up being handed the batons. So it takes decades for an empire to collapse. So I wouldn’t hold my breath that the US empire is going to collapse anytime soon. But because they own the media, they can print. They can still be printing money left and right. I don’t know what to tell you, Nima. I kind of lost my train of thought. What was your question?

Nima: Well, the question was the reaction coming from Russia in order to respond to NAO.

Jeff: It drives me nuts. It’s like they’re taking little villages by little villages, and it’s just like one insult after another. And they’re sending drones northeast of Moscow and they’re killing people deep inside Russia. And now their ground forces are in Kursk. And, it’s just like, when are you all going to do something about this? Of course, we all know that if Russia wanted to, it could do what the United States does and has been doing since World War two with against Germany and Japan.

And we saw it in Iraq with the supposed Iraq wars where they just flattened the country and had no regard for civilian life, no regard for infrastructure, no regard for anything. And so it is true. Russia is trying to avoid civilian losses. And they are bleeding NATO dry. I mean, that’s for sure. I mean, it would be interesting to see what Russia could do if they just picked up the pace a little in Ukraine, because right now, Europe and the United States are in no position to try to ramp up their weapon production.

I mean, they’re just way behind Russia and China. So you’re just like me. It’s just like when are you all going to start kicking some butt? When are you all going to start rolling not village by village? When are you going to, like, roll into Kyiv? Why don’t you start blowing up the Rada and Kyiv and start creating some chaos? I’m just as frustrated as you. And the only guy that’s talking about it is Medvedev, the former president. And he’s the black hat. He gets on Twitter and he gets on Telegram and he says, we’re going to take it to them.

We’re going to kill them. But it never happens. So I think we as Westerners do not understand the way Russians think. You have a country that’s been invaded about every 50 years for the last thousand years. That’s a quote that Putin said, we get invaded every 50 years because people want our resources. So I think they just have a completely different outlook on how to conduct a war like this. And that’s all I can tell you. Or maybe they know some things that we don’t about.

I think instead of waiting for the US empire to collapse which could go on for another decade or two, let’s be honest. But I think they’re just waiting for the Ukrainian manpower to be depleted. And apparently, they’re now taking 50, 60-year-old men. They’re chasing retirees down on the street, sending them to the front. They’re sending young women, they lower the recruitment age, I think down to 25 and I’m sure it’ll be down to 18 eventually. And who knows? There may even be child soldiers fighting for Ukraine. So that’s all I can tell you. I look at the map every day and it doesn’t change, and I’m just like, oh, God.

Nima: Thank you, Jeff, for being with us today. Great pleasure as always.

Jeff: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Nima: Bye-bye.

###

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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1484939999/

China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations

https://www.amazon.com/China-Rising-Capitalist-Socialist-Destinations/dp/0996487042

BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution

https://www.amazon.com/BIG-Red-Book-China/dp/1673322719/

Author page:

https://www.amazon.com/Mr.-Jeff-J.-Brown/e/B00TX0TDDI

Praise for The China Trilogy:

https://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/06/30/praise-for-the-china-trilogy-the-votes-are-in-it-r-o-c-k-s-what-are-you-waiting-for/

Why and How China works: With a Mirror to Our Own History

44 Days Backpacking in China: The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass

China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations

 

 

 

 

 

 

BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution

Read it in your language • Lealo en su idioma • Lisez-le dans votre langue • Lies es in deniner Sprache • Прочитайте это на вашем языке • 用你的语言阅读

Wechat group: search the phone number +8619806711824 or my ID, Mr_Professor_Brown, friend request and ask Jeff to join the China Rising Radio Sinoland Wechat group. He will add you as a member, so you can join in the ongoing discussion.