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Sixteen years on the streets, living and working with the people of China, Jeff

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This is the first time the China Writers’ Group held a discussion together for the public. The roundtable sharing of information and knowledge is impressive. I think you will find it informative and thought provoking. Great way to start the 2025 Year of the Snake!

Executive Summary

Quick recap

The group discussed geopolitical implications, including China’s non-interference policy, Iran’s stability, and the potential for unrest in Xinjiang. They also analyzed the ongoing war, the West’s devious tactics, and the potential strategies against the United States, with a focus on the importance of adapting to one’s enemy’s style of play. Lastly, they explored the Chinese political system, the failure of Western liberal democracy, and the relationship between Japan and China, with a reference to the stock gum syndrome.

Next steps

• Jeff to organize monthly China Writers Group discussions via Zoom.
• Jeff to remove password requirement for future Zoom meetings to improve accessibility.
• Jeff to create a show/transcript from this meeting’s recording.
• Patrice to look into using Greanville Post domain for email to avoid Google communication issues.
• Franz to send Jeff technical questions about email servers and domain setup.
• China Writers Group members to consider discussing “China 2025” topic in the next meeting.
• China Writers Group members to schedule next meeting before January 29th (Chinese New Year).

Summary

Video Meeting With Friends Discussion

Jeff holds a video meeting with friends Irene, Franz, and Quan. Irene is able to communicate via the chat despite Jeff initially wanting to avoid open conversations. The meeting has low attendance as Jeff made a mistake with the passcode. They engage in friendly chitchat, introduce themselves, and share where they are located. Despite the low turnout, Jeff decides to have a nice discussion with the small group present.

China’s Non-Interference Policy and Geopolitics

Irene, Jeff, Quan, Patrice and Frans discussed the geopolitical implications of China’s non-interference policy and its potential consequences. Quan argued that China’s policy of non-interference is being used as a trap by the US, which is trying to provoke chaos and potentially a world war. He suggested that China and Russia should implement a Eurasian security architecture to counteract the US’s strategy. The group also discussed the Abraham Accords and their potential impact on Palestine’s political legitimacy. Irene expressed concern about the immediate suffering of people in conflict zones and the potential for China and Russia to be trapped by their own policies. The group agreed that China’s non-interference policy is deeply rooted in its Confucianist mindset, but Quan emphasized the importance of reading the situation correctly to avoid falling into the US’s trap.

Iran’s Stability and Military Capabilities

Quan argues that Iran’s stability depends on its elite troops and ability to intervene, criticizing the Syrian army’s inaction against jihadists in Aleppo. Jeff highlights Iran’s resilience through its volunteer militia, charities, and military capabilities, and the mutual defense pact with Russia. Irene questions if Iran could fall into the same trap as Assad by cooperating with the US. Quan believes the pact signifies the Iranian leadership’s victory over pro-Western factions for now. Jeff expresses concerns about Iran’s perceived weakness under the new president but sees the Russia pact as a gamechanger against potential Israeli or US aggression.

West’s Reliability and Global Power Dynamics

Patrice expressed concerns about the West’s unreliability and the need for Russia and China to be more assertive in the face of ongoing aggression. Patrice also questioned China’s proactive measures against the threat of the Turkistan Islamic Movement. Quan responded by emphasizing the importance of the three major sovereigns (China, Russia, and Iran) maintaining peace and prosperity within their respective spheres of influence. Quan also highlighted the need for great powers to work together and not exclude each other, as exemplified by China’s model of offering public goods. The discussion concluded with a recognition of the challenges that may arise from the shift in global power dynamics.

Xinjiang Situation and Wahhabi Influence

The discussion revolved around the situation in Xinjiang, China, and the potential for unrest or terrorism. Jeff shared his experiences living in China and his observations of the Uighur people, noting that they were heavily influenced by the Wahhabi faction during the Deng Xiaoping era. He also mentioned that since 2016, the Chinese government has been investing in Xinjiang, teaching Mandarin Chinese, and re-educating imams to counter Wahhabi influence. Patrice expressed concern about the potential for a similar situation to Syria, where the state was deliberately disintegrated, happening in Xinjiang. However, Fang reassured the group that China has the situation under control, with better border control and dependence on mobile phones for transactions. The team agreed to continue monitoring the situation.

War Strategies and Western Tactics

Patrice discussed the ongoing war and the West’s devious tactics, emphasizing the importance of never underestimating one’s enemy. He noted the West’s financial capabilities and the potential for significant damage. Patrice also highlighted the strategic pressure exerted by China and Russia, and the need for a long-term view in warfare. He expressed concern about the West’s imperialistic policies and the potential for escalation, particularly with the incoming US administration. Patrice agreed with Quan’s assessment that Putin is adopting a more Chinese approach to strategy, but warned against underestimating the West’s capabilities. The conversation ended with a discussion on the importance of adapting to one’s enemy’s style of play.

Geopolitical Strategies and US Vulnerabilities

Patrice, Quan, and Jeff discussed the geopolitical situation and the potential strategies against the United States. Patrice expressed his skepticism about China’s understanding of the United States, while Quan cited Wang Honging’s 1991 book, “America against America,” as evidence of China’s awareness of the US mindset. Quan also mentioned the vulnerability of US aircraft carriers due to hypersonic technology and the US Navy’s recent cyber warfare defeat by the Chinese navy. Quan suggested that China and Russia should inflict pinpoint defeats on the US to show their tactical and strategic advantage. Jeff and Irene agreed with the group’s assessment, with Jeff emphasizing the doom of Europe due to the European Union and NATO, and Irene expressing her somber view of the situation.

Concerns Over Global Politics and Education

Irene expressed concern about the dangerous situation in Russia, China, and Iran, and the undermining of Germany’s cultural and educational systems. She criticized the brainwashing of the German people and the exclusion of the Alternative for Germany (AfD) party. Irene also discussed the need for a grassroots movement to resist the delivery of weapons to Ukraine and the provocative policy that invites a reaction. Patrice agreed with Irene’s views, and Quan added that the Anglos’ strategy to conquer and divide has been successful in Europe but not in China due to its different civilizational matrix. Quan also mentioned that the Chinese government closely monitors religious groups and closes those suspected of being infiltrated by foreign agents.

Chinese Political System and Democracy

Quan discussed the Chinese political system, emphasizing the concept of an open aristocratic oligarchy where only a small percentage of the population holds true political power. He argued that this system is not shocking or problematic, but rather a natural progression of society. Patrice agreed, highlighting the structural problems of imperialism and the digital revolution, which have led to crises in major capitalist democracies. He suggested that a profound change, possibly a revolution, is necessary for these countries to progress. Jeff and Patrice also discussed the failure of Western liberal democracy and the importance of considering cultural norms in democracy. The conversation then shifted to the relationship between Japan and China, with Quan explaining that Japan’s feudal mentality and their historical defeat by the Americans have led to their current position. Jeff added that the United States has maintained control over Japan through various means, including the threat of cutting off electricity. The conversation ended with a reference to the stock gum syndrome.

Exploring Democracy, Communication, and Tech

The meeting involved a diverse group of individuals discussing various topics, including democracy, communication, and technology. The participants, including Patrice, Frans, Quan, Irene, and Jeff, shared their experiences and insights on these topics. The discussion began with a question about measuring the degree of democracy in a country, which led to a broader conversation about the definition and implementation of democracy. The group also discussed the importance of communication and the challenges faced with Google’s interference in their communications. The conversation ended with a discussion on the use of domain names for email communication and the potential for future meetings.

Transcript

Irene Eckert: I just read an article if I may drop in, I just read article by Beat Beach or so. They are working from Hong Kong and they were trying to tell us that China is doing the wrong thing by its policy of non-interference because, in the end, it turns out to be exactly the same. The effect is going to be the same as the R2P. No, the other way around. The effect will be the same as the US interventionist policy.

Jeff J Brown: Their right to protect, supposedly.

Irene: I mean, they were trying to say that China’s policy of non-interference is the wrong thing because it enables genocide, to put it briefly. Have you heard of this couple a woman and beat beach or so? They call themselves Substack.

Jeff: In Hong Kong.

Quan Le: But Irene, I have a strong position on that with your permission, Jeff, I would like to offer my answer to Irene on that.

Irene: Very interesting. I would be very interested to hear your answer to this.

Quan: Yes, because let’s not forget what I call very affectionately as the KFC as I am the technocratic feudal conglomerate of the Anglo-Zio-American establishment, has already lost the industrial war, meaning that since 2012, China put in development policies of a systematic robotization of her industry, right? So, China is capable of making a thousand missiles or a thousand cars a day, depending on the need.

So, the overarching policy of imperialism now is the application of a policy called the Rumsfeld Sabrosky doctrine meaning provoking as much chaos as possible throughout the world. So, you have to see what is happening right now in Palestine or in the Gaza Strip as a consequence of the consequence two major axes. First, the creation of the greater Israel and second a provocation for China and Russia for entering into the fray.

Irene: Yeah.

Quan: By doing so, China and Russia will, let’s say, fulfill the wildest dreams of what I call the KFC as IL because it would bring even greater chaos if not to World War III and that is precisely the trap that China and Russia must not fall into. And what happened in Syria too, we all know that the Russians never abandon the allies, right?

But the fact that the Russians did not intervene in the Syrian collapse on December 8th this year so only three weeks ago that’s because precisely the Russian leadership didn’t want to fall into that trap and they wanted to keep their force for what is happening in Ukraine right now because we all understand that Ukraine and Syria are two fronts of the same wall.

Irene: Yeah, I understand that completely. But if you look at it from the perspective of the victims, of course, it’s just the same. You know what I mean? I mean, an entire people in Palestine, including the Syrian people now being slaughtered. But I agree with this. It’s a very complicated geopolitical mass strategy that, of course, the imperial forces are trying to impose on the entire BRICS community, especially Russia and China yeah, and Iran, of course.

Quan: Yes. And you know that on January 17 next year, so, in three weeks, Iran and Russia would sign a military alliance, right? Just three days before the inauguration of Donald Trump. So you understand that that’s a message that is sent to the White House.

Irene: Mm-hmm.

Quan: Also, in July this year, Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping discussed together that they absolutely want the implementation of a Eurasian security architecture. I know that sometimes I might sound a little bit let’s say not sensible to the suffering of the Palestinian people. But I want you to know that the only way that Palestinian people can be rescued one day is that Russia, China, and Iran would be capable of implementing precisely that Eurasian security architecture.

Frans Vandenbosch: Agreed.

Jeff: But isn’t that architecture already there with the SCO? Is it maybe the SCO just needs to become a little bit more muscular? A little bit more forthright?

Quan: Absolutely. And I would say Jeff that being miscalar means three things. For Russia to win in Ukraine, for China to die, or the KFC as I had the USA not to attack Taiwan and for Iran not to allow the gum state vessels to go to the direction of Abraham Accords because you know perfectly that one of the major reasons why October 7, 2023, happened, even if the Palestinian leadership was aware that it was a trap because it was the only possible answer that they have, not to be completely put into the dustbin of history because in the case the Abraham Accords passed, the Palestinian people would have no more political legitimacy.

Jeff: So, the Abraham Accords are that all the Muslim countries normalize diplomatic relations with what I call Yusrahel, right? Is that what the Abraham Accords are?

Quan: Absolutely. And the immediate consequence for Palestine is that the Palestinian people would have zero political legitimacy and that would be truly the end of Palestine. That’s why Hamas decided to go on the attack on October 7, 2023, because they knew perfectly it was a trap, but sometimes in life, even if you know it’s a trap, you don’t have a choice, you have to act.

Irene: Yeah, that’s exactly the issue. And what would happen if Iran now is directly attacked with the new security architecture? I guess China would not be prepared to intervene because of its strict policy of non-interference and legality and reference to international law, and nor would Russia.

Quan: Exactly.

Irene: But if Iran falls, I mean, I’m really very, very worried. I mean, the issue or my question is, although I completely agree with your argument. But isn’t there a point where you have to trust, you have to overcome the legality issue in order to save the immediacy of the situation of the victims. You know what I mean? I see the long-term strategy and the reason is behind it. But on the other side, I also see the immediacy of the sufferings of the people. And with that, I mean, I not sort of also being trapped by our own or by China’s own seemingly well-funded strategy.

Frans: Irene, I know exactly what you mean and I agree with you. There’s an urge to act now. But you also have to understand this is a century-old Chinese tradition. It’s very deep in the Confucist minds of the Chinese, this non-intervention. So don’t expect China to act for every conflict in the world. They will never do that. Never do that. Whatever will happen, China will not send its army out to do such things. We cannot expect such things. It’s not in the Chinese mind to do such things.

Jeff: That’s true.

Quan: Yeah, but once again, I insist okay it’s not a question of a legless mindset. It’s a question of reading the situation in the right manner.

Irene: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Quan: Because it would be a gift for US imperialism to enter into the fact that that is what they want precisely. China and Russia by being, let’s say, a little bit high fallout in sticking in their principles want to give the image of the adults in the room to the rest of the world and to show in a graphic manner who are the barbarians here. And waiting for the capacity of Iran to intervene because let’s not forget the stability of the region doesn’t depend on China or Russia.

It depends on Iran because you know perfectly the stability of Syria till December 8 was because of the Iranian elite troopers. And because the Iranian elite troopers were ordered by the government to leave, the Syrian government collapsed. I don’t know if you are aware of it, but Vladimir Putin in his four-hour-long dialogue with the Russians in December, told us that there were only I think 300 jihadis going to a lab from the pocket of Idlib and there were two divisions or three divisions of the Syrian Arab army supposedly defending a lab meaningfully 30,000 men and those 30,000 men did not do anything when the 300 jihadis went to Aleppo.

I don’t want to make a trial about who is responsible or not but sometimes it’s a question of justice. If the Syrians of 30,000 persons did not do anything against 300 jihadis coming from the Idlib pocket, do you expect the Iranian troopers to die for the Syrian Arab Republic? Why I am talking about that is because you have to go back a century or even more, that region is made by people who are completely brainwashed, who are completely subservient to the imperialist powers and their bourgeoisie doesn’t have what I call an aristocratic oligarchy.

The aristocratic oligarchy means the people have a spine and brains for upholding their country. If those people don’t uphold the sovereignty of their country, do you expect other people to uphold it for them? And I want to finish my rant with two pieces of information. Iran and Russia offered Bashar al-Assad to improve his army and even offered money for that and generous conditions of a refund and he didn’t do anything at all.

2# Because Bashar al-Assad has been influenced by MBZ, the guy from Abu Dhabi who told him that he just kept silent and obedient to the state of Israel. Maybe he would last longer than if he went frontal against Israel. So once again, I’m not here to throw stones at anyone. But how are you supposed to have that kind of people?

Jeff: I would like to point out that I read Ramin Mazahari’s book about Iran’s Islamic socialism. It’s really a good book if you have not read it. He really explains what’s going on in Iran since the revolution. And he said that there is no way that the collective West can destroy Iran now because they have the BASIG which is about 40% of the population. And it’s basically a volunteer militia. And they are armed and trained.

And then about 30% of the population, and I can’t think of the name but they are these huge equivalent billion-dollar charities these massive charities that are organized and they are also extremely integrated into the economy. And then, of course, you have the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) which is the real muscle for Iran.

He said they would eat kind of like the Chinese during the Chinese Civil War, they would eat grass. They would eat grass and crawl across you know cut glass to defend their country before they let Iran fall. And not to mention that Iran has some of the most advanced missile technology in the world, thanks in large part to North Korea.

They actually cooperate very, very discreetly with North Korea in their missile technology. That’s why Hezbollah has such incredible missile technology. They also cooperate with the North Koreans. So I’m not worried about Iran falling, but I think that they will suffer socially and economically as you know the collective West, including Israel, you know, tries to put pressure on them but they’re not going to cave.

I don’t think the Iranians are going to cave no matter what. And now I didn’t know this event that they were going to sign a mutual defense treaty with Russia on January 17th. That’s unbelievable. So that means we would now have mutual defense treaties from Iran to Russia, Russia to North Korea, and North Korea to China. That takes in the Asian quad. So, the only one we don’t have is Russia with China, but I don’t think they need that.

Irene: You don’t see the danger that Iran is still trying to find a cooperating way out with the new US administration that it would be a possibility to fall into the same trap as Assad did, who obviously must have who knows why I don’t know why have cooperated with the Arabs and with the West. Why should he not have ordered his troops to defend the country if it was strong as you were saying, Quan?

Quan: I would like to answer that question because it’s a very important question. The Iranian bourgeoisie, like the bourgeoisie from Turkey, is very pro-Atlantist. But let’s not forget that the true leaders of Iran are the Ayatollah Khamenei and the Molas. So, the fight between the pro-Atlantis bourgeoisie and the Ayatollah happened precisely in October, November, and December.

The fact that they wouldn’t be the signature on January 17, 2025, between Russia and Iran is a direct sign that the Ayatollah and the Molas were victorious over the pro-Atlantis bourgeoisie. It doesn’t mean that it’s a final victory because it is ongoing. Once again, let’s not forget that West Asia and the Middle East, because of the British Empire. And the American Empire having succeeded to the British Empire in that region has penetrated deeply into the comprador bourgeoisie of those people.

So, we cannot change the history. We can only work with what is possible. And I see the fact that there wouldn’t be a treaty of alliance signed on January 17th as the provisional victory for now of the sovereigns. It doesn’t mean that it will not change. And once again, I’m not shy to show myself as being a little bit callous sometimes. I’m sorry to use very violent words. You cannot rely on slaves for being your partners and a lot of the people in the Middle East are slaves because they have been brainwashed by the British Empire and by the American empires for almost 150 years.

And before the British and the Americans, they were ruled by the Turkic Ottoman Empire. So, the state of the country in the Middle East except for Iran a very weak state. Only Iran in that corner of the planet has a true state tradition. You know, I talked to many of my Jewish friends because I have Jewish friends, believe me or not. They say something quite violent to me, but it’s very true. That’s why I take the risk to say it on screen.

You know why the Jews detest the Iranians? I won’t repeat what my Jewish friend said. In that corner of niggers and of wogs, the only people who are our rivals are the Iranians. Because the Iranians are the only people having the spine and the brains to be a sovereign power among a lot of countries which doesn’t have an aristocratic oligarchy and who will always be manipulated by the imperialist Western powers. I stop here.

Jeff: I also think that the plane current, well, the helicopter crash with President Raisi really was a punch in the stomach for Iran. I really noticed a change in the tenor and the forthrightness of Iran, at least publicly in the media, the new president, Pezeshkian. I think he would probably classify as one of Quan’s you know Atlantis’s. He’s definitely not a sovereign. And I think that Raisi was.

And since Raisi got killed and Pezeshkian is now president, I just feel like, Iran has turned into a slug you know like just weak and vacillating. But Quan saying that they are actually going to sign a mutual defense treaty with Russia next month, I mean, that’s just in three weeks, and that will be earth-shattering. Because that means then and maybe that’s why… Patrice is here. All right. Good for you, Patrice.

Thank you for joining us. And I think maybe that’s why Putin during his four-hour marathon with the media I think that’s maybe why he had a very snarky comment about, you know, who are these Jewish people, you know, who don’t go to synagogues and stuff. Basically, you know, fingering Israel. Because now if Israel tries to attack or even the United States tries to attack Iran, they’ll have to deal with Russia, too. But then again, maybe that’s something they want. I don’t know. We’ll see what happens.

Jeff: Hello, Patrice.

Patrice Greanville: Hello, my dear friends. How are you doing?

Jeff: Doing great.

Patrice: Here we are trying to, shall I would say get through another day. At my age, every day is an accomplishment. I think I am among the oldest now in the group by easily.

Jeff: Hang in there. We need you.

Patrice: Well, I’m trying.

Jeff: I have a question. What do you think, you know, obviously what happened in Syria of course, you know, I think the economic sanctions against Syria, what were they saying that the Syrian army, the foot soldiers were getting paid something like $30 a month or something I mean.

Patrice: Yeah, $20 on average.

Jeff: Yeah, $20 a month. So that was not sustainable. But what is going to happen with like Russia and Iran with Turkey’s betrayal, what’s going to happen?

Patrice: That’s a pretty big question. As a matter of fact, there is a spectrum of opinion as you all know it stretches all the way from totally approving the moves by Iran and Russia to withdraw and then disapproving and considering the responses of Putin to be weak and actually inviting continuous and mounting aggressions. And I am myself of two minds about this because I find that Putin when he signed off on the Minsk Agreements and then was so, shall we say shamefully shown to have been fooled by the West.

I don’t know how Russia with its Soviet Union history and et cetera, et cetera, and many of the diplomatic core that exists in Russia today were already part of the Soviet Union’s diplomatic corps. They all know that the Americans are basically completely unreliable. As a matter of fact, the notion of being in agreement incapable is an established fact in diplomacy circles certainly in the Soviet Union and it has continued in Russia to be the prevalent view.

Now, why would putting get into this idea of being able to all of a sudden find decency in the West when the West is structurally incapable of decency? And secondly, to delay I mean, I understand that in some ways he was doing what Stalin was doing when he signed the Ribbentrop Pact non-aggression, he was arming himself as much as possible getting all the ducks in a row and so on and so forth. I understand that.

But at the same time, I think that having reached a level of adequate military deterrence, he should be more assertive. So, send the message to the world that goes beyond the ability of the American soft media to actually obliterate that message or deform it. And I don’t know that he has been successful in that. And as a matter of fact, I think that the worst is going to go on doing things. You can see what they’re doing.

They’re launching regime change operations all over the place. Savage operations are all over the place. Terrorism is everywhere. This thing is not going to stop because the West has infinite resources for that and my question, as a matter of fact, to you and the people who are concerned about China is what is China going to do now to be more proactive about this threat of this step TIP, the Turkestan thing which of course they have a base in Turkey and so on and so forth?

And these people are going to be causing all kinds of trouble in Xinjiang. Now, I saw some documentaries on Xin Yang some time ago and I’m extremely impressed with the beauty of the place and the development of the place is just impressive. And any person who is fair and reasonable would say, well, this is no genocide here. People don’t look oppressed. But at the same time, terrorism can destroy all that very easily because as you know, destroying is a lot more economically efficient than building.

Building takes time and effort. Destroying very little. And if they create and the West is an expert at that. The West has pools everywhere, paid agents everywhere. This is a very tough opponent. And I don’t think that the Russians and the Chinese are really taking the true measure of the West. The worst may be in his dying bed by my God. What a hard death that is. It’s putting the whole world in peril. Any ideas?

Quan: I would like to react to Patrice if it’s possible.

Patrice: Please.

Jeff: Please.

Quan: First, I would like to say that the Chinese leadership understands perfectly that the West now is applying the Rumsfeld-Sebrovsky doctrine, okay? Meaning provoking as much chaos across the world as possible and provoking them to enter into the fray.

Patrice: Mm-hmm.

Quan: And that is absolutely important for Russia and China to stay the adults in the room for the rest of the planet. That’s one. 2# Concerning the A team, the eastern Turkestan Islamic movement.

Patrice: Yes.

Quan: The Chinese intelligence has a fine thick like that on each of them. And I admit that China had a very cruel strategy some years ago. When they left Xinjiang, the Chinese government made everything that was possible for them to stay in Syria and not allow them to return. But if they return, each of them would be followed step by step. You know, that in China, there is such a surveillance system that the government is capable of knowing if you are in a public toilet if the government wishes to know it.

Patrice: Right.

Quan: So, if one of those idiots and brainwashed come back to China, be very sure that he wouldn’t at once be identified. The third point that I want to mention, there was a recent report and Jan Obert was one of the experts. I think Jan Obert is a friend of Frans if I’m not mistaken.

Frans: That’s right, yes.

Quan: And he and on Xinjiang precisely. And China is completely shown that there was no genocide in the past, in the present, or in possibly in the future because we will have to revise the definition of genocide. In 1949, there were about 3.5 million Uyghur people and in 2024, there are 12.5 million Uyghur people. So, we will definitely have to revise the definition of genocide.

Patrice: Of course, of course.

Quan: And that being said, I want to put things on a Eurasian scale.

Patrice: Yes.

Quan: You have at the three corners of Eurasia the three major sovereigns. China on the east side, Russia on the west and north side, and Iran on the west and south side.

Patrice: Right.

Quan: Each of those sovereigns is not a vassal. They are independent in themselves, but they coordinated and used the long expression of the China-Russia relations as a comprehensive strategic partnership of coordination and communication for a new era, and that new era is precisely the end of the colonial order. But I see that endeavor of putting an end to the colonial order as the endeavor of the next three generations, meaning till the end of this century in 2100 okay and we are only almost in 2025.

On the practical level, you know that Medvedev visited China on the 9th and the 10th of December. And on the 9th, the 10th, the 11th, and the 12th of December, there was a massive new naval maneuver involving more than a hundred warships from China and more than 100 airplanes from China surrounding Taiwan. And guess what the Japanese shut up, the South Koreans shut up. But what is more impressive the Americans shot up.

So, signs are very clear that each of the three sovereigns must be responsible for its own region because once again, I’m coming back to my concept. Well, it’s not my concept. It’s the concept from the KFC as an aristocratic feudal conglomerate of the Anglo-ZioAmerican establishment that is the concept of the Rumsfeld-Sebrovsky doctrine. The realm of each of the major sovereigns (China, Russia, and Iran) is to maintain peace and prosperity within its own sphere of influence.

So, it would be a big pocket of peace and prosperity and you know that ASEAN, the 10 countries of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations said many times that they don’t want to choose. But you know that if they say they don’t want to choose its code they chose China because China always said that China doesn’t want people to choose.

And I want you to say also that when President Xi Jinping met Biden on November 15 and 16 this year at Lima for the epic summit, he said that China and the US have to demonstrate great power responsibilities. And among the four points of red power were responsibilities, first, to promote peace, and unity and to deliver global goods, to interact positively with each other and not to exhaust each other precisely.

Patrice: Right.

Quan: And two, not to coerce the smaller nations to pick a side because the model of China is precisely to offer public goods and to promote all the great powers. Okay, let’s be frank. There are only three great powers on this planet for now: China, the US, and Russia. Meaning that those three great powers should work together and not exile each other and to deliver public goods and to compete in a healthy manner to offer precisely those public goods. But of course, I’m not naive.

What I call affectionately the KFC I have, has been used for so long to be the only superpower on earth that it would be a very painful process for that plutocratic oligarchy to learn that there are people who are equal to them. But for them to understand that they are people who are equal to them, I am afraid that they would need to receive some slap in the till they understand but the difficulty here is to give them those slap for them to understand without provoking World War III.

Jeff: World War Three, yeah, yeah.

Patrice: Well, of course. That has been the problem all along.

Irene: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff: If I could back up to Xinjiang, I would like to point out we were actually living in China from 2010 to 2019 and we were there when they were having all of these terrorist attacks from the Uyghurs who were being trained in Iraq and being trained in the Middle East, et cetera.

Frans: Turkey.

Jeff: And I think, and, you know, we were like, oh, my God, they just killed 20-something people at the train station. We were there two weeks ago. It really causes you to pause and think about what was going on. But I think a big difference and the reason that ETIM will not work this time is because of the border and of course, Quan brings up the fact, you know, they’ve got, you know, incredible, you know, facial identity, et cetera.

So I think that’s a given. But I think the difference is, back then the people were not educated. The people in Xinjiang were heavily under the influence of the Wahabi Saudi Arabian Muslims. During the Deng Xiaoping era, the Wahhabis were allowed to build a lot of mosques in Xinjiang and train the imams in those mosques. And of course, they were not being trained to defend China. They were being trained to destabilize China.

Well, now, starting in 2016, I wrote a really nice article about this Starting in 2016 after that the horrible one where a bunch of people was, I think it was Quinn Ming train station where they killed several tens of people and injured hundreds. That’s when they finally got serious and started investing in Xinjiang and the Uyghurs seriously teaching them Mandarin Chinese because up to that time, they were being very socialist and letting the Xinjiang people speak Uyghur to preserve their culture and preserve their history and everything.

Then they realized they had been excluded from the Chinese economy. They really started pushing, you know, teaching Mandarin and they had these education camps, that these education schools that the West branded as gulags or concentration camps. So, since 2016, there has been a massive education program in Xinjiang and all over the country about terrorism what it means, and what they’re trying to do.

And so they were able to blend in and influence and inspire people in Xinjiang before 2016. I think even if an ETEM guy got all the way to Ulamucci, the capital of Xinjiang, or Kashka on the Afghanistan border. I don’t think he’d have anybody to inspire because I think he would be immediately denounced by 99% of the people that he talked to. So that I think, it’s a vast border. I mean, they can come in all day across through the mountains, through the stands.

And so, but I don’t think it’s going to work this time because the people now are sensitized to what these people are really doing. And they got rid of the imams. They re-educated the imams, or they defrocked them. And that’s why they also actually changed the masks that they rebuilt to look like Uyghur mosques and not Saudi Arabian mosques to just completely remove the Wahabi influence in Xinjiang.

And of course, the Americans, oh, they’re destroying mosques. No, they were just you know getting rid of some of the architecture that is from the Middle East to bring them back to their Uighur Muslim roots. So, I’m not too worried about each of them. I think they can talk big and I hope they come across the border because they’ll catch every one of them, to be honest.

Patrice: Well, you know, I got to tell you Syria, of course, was a hollowed out of state for generations literally and since 2011, open subversion attacks by Jihadis and Wahhabis and whatnot, it was obviously a nation that was being purposely and successfully disintegrated. And obviously, the ultimate purpose was as often as not, the American empire is very clear cynically clear about what it aims to do.

There are plenty of documents that indicated that they wanted to disintegrate that estate, take it over in order to you know realize the ultimate strategic gains for example the Qatari oil pipeline and so on and so forth. All these things. And they wanted to help Syria. When they saw the terrific importance that Syria played as a transmission point transshipment point for logistics for Hezbollah, they saw, well, this is it.

We have to really liquidate the state. Now, Syria is basically where it is granted. I don’t think that many people or many types of, shall we say government to put it that way, rulership Assads or not the Assads would have been able to hold together against this particular multi-vector attack by the West. It was humongous. It comprised every possible level of the American power system from soft power to hard power and they destroyed Syria.

I mean, we know that Syria was the first country that actually produced waves and waves of immigrants toward Europe and other places. The place of, as a matter of fact, the signature of the empire has always been rubble a lawyer blades bombing, rubble, displacement horrible crimes, et cetera, et cetera. And what we see in Gaza today, it’s like a reminder and the magnification of the boundaries, the immoral boundaries of the United States and its accomplices.

Frans: You are concerned that something similar will happen in Xinjiang?

Patrice: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, absolutely.

Frans: Don’t worry, don’t worry. This is China. China has this perfectly under control. That they have a plan. They have been working for more than decades on a plan. They have something solid in place. Also, what changed in the past 5 or 10 years is that everybody in China is dependent on his mobile. Everybody in China, you cannot buy something without a mobile phone.

On that mobile phone, the Chinese government has so many controls over these people coming into Xinjiang. The borders are almost perfectly closed. Now, they have much better control of the borders today than 10 years ago. I am very confident that China has this situation perfectly under control. No worries about that.

Patrice: Well, I do. I would like to believe you 100% and I’ll work on that.

Quan: I think you’re probably right.

Patrice: As a matter of fact, I’ll read you all the time. And I am very grateful for what you do. I’ve been reading your materials for a long time. And as I say, what you say I surely understand. And I believe, I mean there’s no question that China has you know a network of supervision to put it that way of the country that is quite extensive, impressive, unprecedented in scope and ineffectiveness probably.

However, one of the oldest rules in any kind of war, whether it be this kind of war or whatever is, never underestimate your enemy. The West is a very, very devious enemy with a lot of capabilities. Even today I mean they can huff and puff and much of that is just you know chest breathing and you can dismiss it. But at the same time, they’re capable of doing quite a bit of damage because they have untold amounts of money now that they can collapse their financial system any day that’s another story.

And as a matter of fact, finally, I’m seeing with a certain degree of shall we say satisfaction that the Chinese are beginning to exert more strategic pressure on the things that they actually allow to be sold to the West. And the same should go for the Russians. The Ruski shut down many of them I understand they have a culture of honor in their contracts. I understand that.

But when you’re at war, the owner of contracts I think has to be you know taking a second look. They have supplied literally their enemy for a long time with vital strategic materials. And that should not be done, period. And as a matter of fact, this has exposed a flank to the West that the West in three years did not even think about. They have been trying to get rid of Putin for a long time.

Now they have created the fifth and sixth columns in Russia that are as strong as ever if not probably stronger than ever. Because of all these tribulations in Ukraine slow pace, all these things, and now what happened recently with the Georgian situation, a Moldova situation, and this and that all these regimes change attempts okay so far, they’re putting in a very bad place with this kind of crowd which is powerful.

And if you understand also the temperament of military men, military men are military men everywhere. They have a temperament that is different from civilians in several ways, right? Many military men in Russia today are probably thinking, is Putin really reacting properly here? I think that a bunch of these guys are closer to the medieval model of reaction than the Putin model of reaction. And they’re thinking that Putin is basically dropping the ball in the way he reacts. What do you think of that?

Frans: I replied on that question in my email from some days ago. I have the feeling that Putin is trained now by Chinese experts in long-term thinking and also in the military field think long-term, let them come the enemy, and hit them when they are on your territory. He can hit hard and relentlessly when they are there and on his own terms. But first of all, think long-term.

Don’t mind when you lose smaller things now, today, but think always on the long term, not in three years, but in five, ten, or fifty years even. And I feel like Putin is more and more thinking Chinese on that way, is much more similar in his strategy to the Chinese than our Western way of thinking from hitting them back right away. Putin is not doing that anymore. I think Putin changed more in the Chinese way.

Patrice: You’re probably right about that. But does that give us the right to assume that we have the time to actually believe in a strategy that presumes the existence of humanity, Russia and China for the next 10, 20, 30, 50 years?

Frans: Actually that is our own problem. We Westerners are thinking in this way. We think justice is when there is something done wrong, we should react now and immediately. We should not think long-term. That’s our way of thinking. Maybe we are wrong in our thinking.

Patrice: Well, Frans, you know, we have a situation here where you’re dealing and I don’t have to tell you this because you know it, you’re dealing with elites in the West who are the epitome of thinking in that manner. Also, the mediocrity of intellectual talent, of professional talent in all spheres of governance presents a danger to humanity. Secondly, the fact that Russia has more shall we say nuanced levels of escalation possible for them now because of the Orishnik and so on and so forth.

The West doesn’t have that. If the West decides to actually stand up quotation marks to Russia, particularly with this guy who’s coming into office very soon, what is going to happen is that they don’t have much to respond with except jumping from, let’s say this level to this level the nuclear. Now they would be tempted to do that. And if that starts, there’s no stopping it. If that starts, there’s no stopping it. And you know it because of the way the Russian Nuclear forces are constructed.

And the policies that go into the Russian nuclear forces. I mean, you know, I am not convinced 100% by anything that anybody says, including myself but I tell you this. I listened to all the so-called experts, right? Ray McGovern, Scott Ritter. I respect his many years of investment in this thing. And frankly, he talks ad nauseum about this problem that we have with the West. First of all, the neocons are still very much in power. Trump is bringing another crew of neocons that are as bad as the ones that are sitting there in power right there.

Jeff: Well, I think they’re worse.

Patrice: So, the problem continues almost. We cannot trust Trump’s protestations about peace because he has already de facto betrayed that promise. So, this is going to be a continuation of imperialistic policies no matter what, because that is the real US foreign policy, imperialism. It will continue no matter what until the empire is defeated on its own terms and the United States becomes a normal nation, a great power that it deserves to be. But a normal nation, in the family of nations.

So that process, that transition is the one that the neocon cliques and all the people who support that notion and live by that notion and profit from that notion do not want to let go of. So, in the meantime, we can say all these wonderful things and I respect them about Western foolishness and about the, shall we say, the capacity to be very over-quick to react and do all these stupidities that the West is famous for and the wisdom of the East. The East obviously has a tremendous amount of wisdom.

And one of the aspects that you just mentioned the fact that China has this long-term view of the history et cetera, et cetera, which has probably communicated to Putin and his you know circle of policy matters. I agree with you. All of that is all the good. All to the good but we cannot presume that we’re dealing with an enemy that is actually going to, shall we say, adapt to our style of play. If we make that mistake, we’ll pay for it.

Let me tell you something I am not I mean, when I was very young, I was involved at one point in something that you could call military. Later on, in my middle age, mainly because I needed to lose weight which I still do, I started thinking, you know, martial arts of all things, to the horror of my companion, my long-suffering companion. One of the things that I think they always teach you martial arts.

It’s all this, you know, thing that, you know, martial arts are basically very much a province of Eastern thinking you know the way you strategize blah, blah, blah, et cetera. All of the so-called martial arts are basically grounded in attitudes like that. You study your opponent; you act like this one. Fine. It’s all wonderful. But you know, what they say you know if you do not really incorporate the actual frame of mind and the way the enemy sees reality with all its defects, you’re going to be in a position of weakness when you face that enemy because you will not know that enemy properly.

Now, I mean, if there is any enemy that the world has had time to learn about, how it behaves? How it thinks? Even if they don’t understand it very clearly because God knows that the Americans are extremely difficult to understand. The United States has been an empire for a hundred years. They could leave a couple of decades and what it has done, it has been very clear to humanity.

I mean, all the crimes that he has done as a matter of fact, I kind of think not even the British Empire, maybe because it was living in a different kind of technology, it was obviously an empire that didn’t have the technological and strategic resources the United States had. It didn’t do as many things as the United States has done. This country, I would never underestimate its capacity still in its decline.

Frans: Don’t you think that China knows the United States then the other way? I am very confident that the people in China who are preparing that strategy know the United States much, much better than the other way the United States knows China. China is much better prepared for whatever the United States can or will do. So, I’m confident.

Jeff: Quan, did you want to say something?

Quan: I would like to bring three practical answers to Patrice’s interrogation. Wang Ho Ning, who is number four on the standing committee of the Politburo wrote in 1991 a book called [Other language] Meaning America against America. It was published in Shanghai in 1991. I want to mention it because it’s related to Patrice’s interrogation to what extent the Chinese know the Americans.

In that book, Wang Huning predicted exactly what happened right now in America and he made that prediction more than 30 years ago. So, I would like to offer a practical example that the Chinese leadership is perfectly aware of the kind of mindset mentality and pretensions of the Western imperialist conglomerate. That once again I call the catechistocratic feudal conglomerate of the Anglo-Zio-American establishment.

Patrice: Which is a terrific definition.

Quan: That being said, the second example that I would like to offer the Americans know perfectly now that their aircraft carriers are sitting ducks because of the hypersonic.

Patrice: Right.

Quan: So, you know, perfectly Henry Kissinger in the past always said where are the aircraft carriers, okay? But I don’t want to be impolite, but aircraft carriers nowadays are just boogeymen for third-world countries like China, Russia, and Iran, are absolutely sitting ducks and China doesn’t want to kill people. If China was willing to kill people, she would have killed many aircraft carriers because it’s very easy for her now.

Third practical example: In July this year, the American Navy lost cyber warfare and electronic warfare against the Chinese Navy in the South China Sea. So, what I want to say is that we have to inflict the KFC as IL as a very pinpoint defeat to show them that they no longer have the tactical and the strategic advantage. And the two military examples are what I call tactical advantages.

Patrice: Right.

Quan: But I would like to mention one major strategic advantage when Putin did not rescue Syria, it was one of the reasons. It was not the only reason. It was he who wanted to focus on the north-south international corridor. Because thanks to that north-south international corridor, he can maintain commerce and trade with Iran and from Iran with Africa. From a strategic perspective, there is a collaboration between China and Russia for the resources from Africa.

And it’s not only extractive collaboration because China opened God knows how many thousands go to Africa because we want to make the Africans winners. Because on the short medium and long term, the Africans have suffered so much from Western imperialism when they wouldn’t have the tools of power that would be given in part to them by China and Russia and it wouldn’t be, of course, their own merit because they would make the effort to assimilate the knowledge, of course.

They wouldn’t be powerful partners for us bringing down the KFC, ASEAN, as I said. It wouldn’t be an endeavor that will take the next three generations because I don’t underestimate KFC as I am. They will not bow out graciously. They will fight tooth and nail to keep their domination, let’s say.

Patrice: Exactly, exactly.

Quan: And by having the Africans on our side, you know, Patrice that the Africans kicked out the French colonialists, the English, the Americans, and by doing so, we will cut the commodities and the energy sources for Europe and I don’t want the end of the European people but sadly for now, they are the vassals of the Americans. Okay, so we will have to do something to bring the economy down and maybe they wouldn’t understand that it’s better to be on the side of the sovereigns than keep on to be the obedient vassals of the KFC as IL.

Patrice: Yes.

Quan: So, you know, you ordered a knee, Patrice. I don’t have the pretensions to teach you anything but geopolitics is a cruel game. Sometimes we have to do cruel things.

Patrice: Of course.

Quan: And by cutting the energy source for the Europeans, maybe it will help them to reflect on the fact that they better forget about the KFC as IL and go to the side of China and Russia. I know, for example, because France is present in our discussion group that many German companies are right now in China. And probably if that German industry wouldn’t survive the next century, it’s because they have companies and corporations in China precisely.

Frans: That’s right, yes.

Jeff: Patrice, let me just say since I’ve lived in France for the last few years. And of course, France right now in Flanders the state of Belgium. Europe is doomed for two reasons. And then also Irene’s in Germany, of course. We’ve got quite a European contingent here. And of course, you all know I’m a French citizen also. Europe is doomed for two reasons. One is Brussels, the European Union which is a totalitarian fascist organization, and number two, Brussels has NATO. So, I mean, it’s just, it’s doomed. And it pains me to think as I’ve got relatives and friends in Europe. And until the European Union is broken up, Europe is screwed. And there’s nothing that the European, there’s no more sovereignty in Europe. There is no more sovereignty.

Patrice: As a matter of fact, it has been for a long time.

Jeff: A crawl and who’s the new guy in Germany now or whatever Schultz and these guys, they’re just finger puppets. They’re just finger puppets. They have the Lisbon Treaty of 2009 literally took away any national control that a leader in France had. They get their orders from the European group once a month. They put their talking orders. They get on TV. And they do what the central banks, the central bankers and NATO tell them to do each month. And then they read their script and they pass those laws. Europe is doomed. And I hate it. I love France. I love Europe.

Patrice: Yes. I agree with you 100%.

Jeff: What do you think, Irene? You’re German. What do you think is going to happen?

Irene: The situation is very, very, very somber. I was thinking all the time that the fate of humanity and of course including us Europeans depends now on the brains of the adults in the room, which are the leaders of Russia, China, and, hopefully, Iran. But it’s all that you have been saying it’s a very, very dangerous situation. It’s not a good situation to be in. And what I feel from a German and European standpoint, especially threatening is that they have really undermined our cultural our educational system.

I mean they were not only able within a couple of years with board leaders to bring down our economy at a tremendous pace, but they have been undermining our cultural heritage and people are brainwashed to such an extent. I mean, my vision or my analysis of whatever calls itself a peace movement in Germany, for example, I mean, it’s absurd because these movements have all been infiltrated and bought.

And there is I mean you probably know Sahra Wagenknecht the leader of the new leftist party which is being you know sort of heralded everywhere and she is an interesting personality and she’s a charming and beautiful woman. But recently, you may have heard she without being asked for it, called Putin a criminal and a criminal of war, something of that kind. And this has been her policy for quite a while.

Patrice: Exactly. Exactly.

Frans: So, you will you will vote ADF, I suppose.

Irene: I mean, the ADF, of course, is being completely excluded. I mean, they are a mixed bag. I don’t agree with those who claim the AFD to be a neo-fascist, absolutely, I don’t see that at all. On the contrary, they have many good people who reach out their hands to Russia who want an alternative economic policy, who want an end to sanctions, and who want the edge to supply Ukraine with endless masses of ever more dangerous and lethal weapons to reach deep into the Russian mainland.

But they should work, they should cooperate. I mean, the AFD and the alliance that Sahra Wagenknecht has founded, they are actually natural alliances. But the brainwashing machinery and the infiltration have done a good job so that the left knows oppositional movement will not go in any way together with the AFD. And I think the AFD is a force that needs to be taken seriously. And Patrice, by the way, I would see a Trump in a more differentiated way.

I mean, not that I applaud him and not that I think that he can achieve wonders or miracles and maybe he even doesn’t want to but at least she expresses the wishes of the American people to put an end to the Ukraine war which here in my country totally nobody really expresses this wish of our people in terms that are capable of rallying masses of people. You know what I mean? I mean, in 183, I come from the peace movement dating back to 83 against known nukes on German soil.

And wouldn’t we need now a movement, a grassroots movement to resist the delivery of toruses, for example, to Ukraine, or an end to a provocative policy that invites a reaction hopefully the Russians will be reasonable enough to not escalate, which they obviously hopefully, they don’t? But you know what I mean? The situation is so dire, not only on an economic level, but the worst thing is that the minds of the people have been brainwashed to such an extent you know.

Patrice: And that’s the specialty of the Anglos. That is the Anglos specialty.

Irene: Yeah, yeah. This is what really frightens me the most because they have their strategy to conquer and divide and brainwash people, they have been successful, and hopefully, they will not be successful with Russia, China, and Iran to such an extent. But after all, Germany was a cultural nation. But our foundations have been completely washed out. Our intellectual, our oppositional, our strong I mean the working-class movement was born.

In Germany, the Social Democratic Party was the first one of its kind you know and they have been completely destroyed. Even to a new alliance that assembles good people, people who want an end to the Ukraine war after all. But under what excuse me for being so lengthy but it’s it breaks my heart to see that the people want an end to that war in Germany. They want another economic policy. They want change, but there is nobody literally who can or who dares to express it in clear terms. And if somebody is being destroyed.

Quan: I would like to say that Germany has been easily brainwashed because Germany shares the same civilizational matrix then the Anglos, okay it’s part of the Christendom. Let’s not forget that on the three major sovereigns right now, the Russian Christendom is very different from the Western Christendom.

Irene: That is true. Yeah.

Quan: Iran is from a completely different civilizational matrix from old Persia and from Shia Islam. An off-court China is completely a foreign world, right? So the element of infiltration that the Anglos managed with Europe with even some part of the Middle East because before they were conquered by the Ottoman Empire, it was part of Christianity. And with South America, it was because they share the same general Christian matrix as the Western Christian.

Frans: How about Hong Kong? They did do it in Hong Kong?

Quan: My dear friends, you know that Hong Kong is the land of house niggers. I don’t want to… So that being said, they have improved a little bit since the arrival of the communists in 1997.But that being said, I want also to add that that’s why the movement of the young leaders who worked extraordinarily well in Europe did not work that well in China because you know that they are young leaders in China right?

But those young leaders brainwashed by the West are under the surveillance of the Chinese intelligence service and it’s one of the best ways to follow the Western infiltration than to let some idiots to be young fellows or young leaders and to have Chinese intelligence service to check that. The same thing to the Bureau of Religious Affairs, because you know that there is religious freedom in China.

But all churches must temples have to be registered with the Bureau of Religious Affairs because they would be checked.As long as they don’t do anything other than just ordinary religious worship, they have the right to operate in China.But if there is the slightest doubt that it is a nest of infiltration and of subversion that church, that mosque, that temple, that synagogue would be closed.

And I would like to say also because maybe some people of our audience don’t know that country to you guys. The images of the churches, the mosques, and the temples that are destroyed by bulldozers in China, it are not because the Chinese government is against the freedom of religious practice, it was because the people of those churches, temples, and mosques did not register with the Bureau of Religious Affairs.

Jeff: Or they were taking money from overseas.

Quan: Yeah, exactly, which is an indirect way of indicating that they are spikes. Subversive agents. So, I want to stress that because China has a very different civilizational matrix. It’s much more difficult to subvert the Chinese mind. And also, let’s not forget that the Chinese have what I call in my own language an aristocratic oligarchy, an open aristocratic oligarchy. Meaning that in China, you have 1,400 million people but you have only about 7% to 10% of those people who have true political power. It’s very shocking for the West, but we Chinese don’t think that everyone should have political power because if you are not mentally and intellectually developed enough, you don’t have the privilege and the honor of having political power.

Patrice: Exactly.

Quan: And for us, it’s not shocking. It’s simply normal. And I would like to say also that the notion that everyone should have full political power for me, I don’t claim to have the truth. I’m expressing my opinion, is it a maneuver of the Anglo-American oligarchy to manipulate people, okay? Because people have the false impression that they have full political power, but they are only the puppets of the oligarchs.

Patrice: Exactly. I agree with you 100%. The falsehood of capitalist democracy has been demonstrated for two centuries already and continues to be demonstrated by the evolution of the shall we say, most important so-called capitalist democracies. Look at the disintegration of Britain, the United States model, France’s model, they’re all in crisis. Because the structural problems of imperialism are underwritten by the crisis of capitalism itself the digital revolution created insurmountable problems because the overproduction crisis has never been resolved.

And it will never be resolved. Capitalism doesn’t have a solution. Capitalism cannot be reformed, et cetera, et cetera. So, at this point, you see all of the capitalist democracies in crisis. The major ones. This is why you cannot have any kind of political solution within the current framework. These countries need a revolution. Only a profound change will change actually the currents. And now what you say about China, I’m in complete agreement.

I have no problem looking at that model of democracy because when we say the word democracy, 2e have to always adjust it according to the cultural norms that people come up with. Honest cultural norms. In a certain way, it’s ironic that the Chinese have a way of looking at democracy by aristocratic measures. That resembles Socratic Solutions to democracy because Plato in the Republic and all these people are, I mean, Aristotle, all of them were talking about that kind of aristocratic democracy.

They were not saying everybody who works around here you know in this so-called ambit that we call the nation or the people has the right to vote. They had a very specific tier system according to value. The citizen’s value, is basically the culture, the ability to govern, and so on and so forth. And on top of that, the moral virtues of the citizens even a corrupt empire like the Romans at a certain point began to talk about a great deal about the citizen values you know the moral values of the leaders, right?

Jeff: Well, I think we can say for sure that since 1848, the founding of Western liberal democracy in France has been an utter failure for the people. It has just been a complete and utter Western liberal democracy is an oxymoron and it.

Patrice: It’s an oxymoron.

Jeff: It is an absolute failure except for the 1%. Two world wars, constant wars, colonialism, imperialism, imperialist adventures all over the planet, it has just been a disaster. I would also like to point out, by the way, we’ve only got four. I don’t know what happens with Zoom. Do we just get cut off after an hour and a half? I don’t know if we have any grace period.  But if we don’t, we get cut off in four minutes.

I do want to say, that I would also like to point out that, they’re often forgotten, but they are extremely important to Iran, Russia, and China, and that’s North Korea. I mean, they have got China’s back, Russia’s back, and Iran’s back. Can you imagine the difference in the power structure right now in Asia without North Korea just breathing down the backs of the Americans in Asia? They’re an impressive little country and they’re Confucius. They are Confucius.

Irene: I have another question for you. What is to make of these new talks between Japan and China? Obviously, they seemed to be a certain rapprochement. How do you evaluate that?

Jeff: I’ll let Quan take that one. If you go to Quan, we’ve only got two minutes.

Irene: Yeah, I was.

Quan: Thank you, Irene, for that question, because I was going to talk about that. The Japanese, they have a feudal mentality, okay? When you are in a group of Japanese, they have a group mentality and a feudal mentality. When they have been defeated by the Americans, they acknowledge the Americans as their overlords. But let’s not forget that the Japanese are also Asian people. When they acknowledged the Americans to be the overlords, they were expecting the Americans to be benevolent overlords.

But since the Plaza Accord of September 1985, the Japanese slowly realize that the Americans are not benevolent overlords. And lately, during the last year, 2024, the Americans have made, let’s say many missteps and clumsy maneuvers, pushing the Japanese against the wall and making them, let’s say, cross the final step to be deeply convinced that the Americans are not benevolent overlords.

And what happened lately with the meeting between Wang Yi and the Japanese foreign ministers is precisely the cherry on the cake of that long process of emotional integration that the overlord accepted because they have been defeated in 1945 and that’s what I call the feudal mentality. But the Americans make the mistake of not taking into account that in Asis the overload is expected to be humane and benevolent. If he’s not humane and benevolent, the subject has the right to rebel and that is why that is what is happening right now with the Japanese.

Jeff: The only problem, Quan, is that in 1945, a lot of people didn’t know this, but the CIA actually put in kill switches in the electrical grid in Japan.

Quan: Yeah.

Jeff: So, the United States can cut off the electricity in Tokyo with the flip of a switch or Osaka. And so, if a prime minister gets Randy and gets rebellious, all they have to do is say, hey, do you want us to cut off electricity in this nuclear power plant or do you want us to cut off the electricity in Tokyo? So, they’re really, the Americans were never benevolent, they were never noble to the Japanese, they set them up from 1945 from the very beginning to be a total vassal state. I don’t know how Japan’s going to get out of that one.

Quan: Well, Jeff, you know that there’s a Stockholm syndrome, right?

Jeff: Oh, yeah.

Patrice: They have that too, I’m sure. They have shown it.

Frans: Gentlemen, I have one last question. I am currently working on a new presentation about democracy. And I was wondering, is there a way to measure the degree of democracy in a country? How do you bring that degree in figures? How to express it in a figure? The degree of democracy in a country, how do you measure that? That’s my question.

Jeff: Results.

Patrice: Oh, that’s some question. You have to set up the definitions first. How can you define democracy before you measure it?

Jeff: Who’s bringing home the bacon? The Chinese. They’re the ones that are bringing home the bacon.

Frans: I was thinking the how happy are the people with the government. And there is research about that. And there are facts and figures about that. The PEW Research, for example.

Jeff: Yeah, the Pew Trust.

Frans: Exactly, but is that a degree of democracy? The way how happy are the people with their government? Is that the same as democracy or not?

Quan: I would suggest maybe an operational definition. We should have a way to measure. First, there should be a way for the people to complain to the government about the staff that they are not satisfied with and after that, we have to measure how many instances the government managed to solve the problem satisfactorily for the people. Because democracy is what is the power of the people, right? The power of the people is to precisely have someone complain about stuff that they are not satisfied with and that there would be a team that would try to solve that problem. So, we should have let’s say a process to measure in how many instances the satisfaction of the people has been solved.

Frans: There are plenty of figures about that. In China, there are ways to complain about politicians from a grassroots level up to the provincial level and there’s a website where you can file a complaint about one or another politician. There are also figures about how they reply to what is really done what not and so on. So, there are figures about that. I have those figures here. I think I published that in my book, though.

Frans: But is that the degree of democracy? Do you measure in that way democracy?

Quan: That’s one criterion.

Jeff: But the problem in the West, their definition of democracy is, I get to stand up in Tiananmen Square and put up a sign that says Xi Jinping sucks. That’s Western democracy. But it doesn’t prove anything. It doesn’t improve anything. It doesn’t change anything. And whereas, so I think, you know, the definition of democracy has to really be drilled down. And I think the Chinese and I have to admit, we’re living now here in Taiwan province, which is not communist and socialist.

And they’ve done a great job. I mean, the people here are well off. They have incredible infrastructure. You know, Chiang Kai-shek was a bastard. He was a corrupt bastard. But he had the Asian vision Quan was talking about. He stole a lot of money. And he was a cruel, ruthless bastard, but he took care of his people. You know, the Taiwanese were taken care of and they’ve got world-class infrastructure. It’s safe. It’s clean. It’s an older island version of mainland China today.

So, it doesn’t even have to be communism and socialism. You just have to have a government that cares enough about the people to take care of them and do what’s right for them. And in spite of everything that the KMT did wrong, the people here are prosperous. So, it’s not a one-size-fits-all all communist socialism works and of course, he wasn’t doing that during the democracy. He did all that during the dictatorship.

Irene: Yes.

Jeff: He made all those improvements in Taiwan when Taiwan was a dictatorship.

Jeff: Go ahead, Irene.

Irene: Yes, that reminds me very much of the situation we had in Germany as long as Germany was divided because West Germany was supposed to be a model against the evil and incompetent and poor GDR, and as soon as the wall came down, the misery was sort of all over the place. Only it took a while until the people really felt it. And Taiwan of course needs to serve as an anti-model against or at least it has to have the same standards somehow. It seems to me it reminds me of the situation.

Jeff: Well, guys and gals, we have a May here. May has been quiet. She is our honored guest and she has been through all of this. Shall we call it a night? And for me, it’s 5:30 in the morning.

Patrice: 5:30 in the morning. My God.

Jeff: So, yeah, I got up at 3:15 to get ready for this.

Irene: Did you register this or is it just?

Jeff: Yeah, it’s recorded. I’m going to do a show. I’m going to end this amazing transcript by Zoom, it is incredibly accurate. It’s just unbelievable. So yeah, I’m going to do a transcript and make it a show if you all don’t have anything against that. I mean, it’s been a tremendous conversation.

Patrice: Yeah, could you organize more shows like this with our core group here? Add more people, blah, blah, blah. But we should have this on a more regular basis. I personally feel very isolated and just to be able to see you and talk to you Quan, Frans, I mean, this is a great honor and I learned a great deal just by being here.

Irene: Very much done for you.

Patrice: And listening to you, I am very impressed well. Actually, that goes without saying. I’ve read your materials for a long time but I’m very grateful and I want to see this happen more often. How about you, Irene?

Irene: Yes, especially I want to thank everybody and Quan at the beginning you were not there yet, Patrice. It was very important what you said. Thank you for your specific input. And of course, Jeff, for organizing this and all the work you are doing, which I’m following.

Jeff: Well, maybe we can do this like maybe once a month. I don’t know. You know, I was hoping more public would may apparently is the only public person to show up. However, somebody sent me a message on Substack saying that the password that I gave China2025 wasn’t working. I went back and checked and somehow it got changed to potash because I interviewed John Potash yesterday. So, the next time I do it, I will just have no password. And then Frans said you didn’t have to even have to have a password to get in.

Frans: That’s right. I just clicked up and I am seeing you. Yeah, no passport.

Jeff: Okay. Well, anyway, it’s been wonderful and I have learned so much and that’s why I’m just so honored to be a member of the China Writers Group and it’s just an amazing body of people and minds and experiences. All of you are welcome to come visit us in Taiwan Province in China.

Frans: Maybe next year.

Jeff: It is pretty spectacular. It’s a nice little island. And we were up at 3,275 meters. And we didn’t even get up to the tallest mountains, 4,000 meters. It’s quite beautiful and the people are lovely and well they’re Chinese, you know, they’re Chinese. They’re just lovely. So, all of you are welcome. And we have a place. You have your own floor with your own bedroom and your own private bathroom.

Jeff: So, you can come and stay with us. We’ve got the room.

Patrice: Most generous.

Quan: Jeff, in what city are you exactly in Taiwan?

Jeff: Puli. I’ll send it to you. It’s in the central part of the country and it’s you know where Taichung is? There’s Taipei. And then in the middle is Taichung, which means Middle Tae.

Quan: Yeah, yeah.

Jeff: And then there’s Kaohsiung in the south. Well,  Taichung is in the center.

Quan: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff: And then we’re 40 kilometers towards the mountains and literally from our house, we’re 200 meters from the foothills. And we’re up at 530 meters above sea level. It’s really nice. So anyway, this has been spectacular. Thank you, May, for at least making it a public discussion and not completely internal. And I hope more people sign up next time. And we’ll set up, maybe do this once a month and just have a China writers gab.

Patrice: That would be wonderful.

Jeff: I’m impressed with everybody’s knowledge and experience. All right?

Quan: I don’t want to be ironic, Jeff, but we did not really discuss China 2025 today. So, it might be the subject of next time. It would be not too late.

Jeff: We better hurry because, yeah, next month we have to do it before January 29th because that’s the year of the snake.

Quan: Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff: Then it’s officially the Chinese New Year. All right. Well, listen, everybody, I will get this out.

Patrice: Before you cut off, are you being also confronted with the Google sort of de facto sabotage of our communications? Because I see that all the messages that I sent to China Writers Group get returned saying, yo, whoa, we’ve got to deliver this, blah, blah, blah. And then communications that come from the China Writers Group, same thing. So Google has been in the forefront of what is your goal of computer meddling and being you know the most aggressive, I would say, of all the…

Jeff: Listen, for all of you, well, Patrice has his name. I have a Thai IT guy. He is very inexpensive. Get a domain with him. You know we use Brownlanglois.com. My wife’s name is Langlois. And so, we have a domain, www.brownlanglois.com. And then with that domain, which only costs like $12 a year.

Patrice: Yeah, yeah.

Jeff: Then you can get emails. And so, you get emails under your domain. So, we have je**@br***********.com and my family members. We have never had a problem. And then Franz is saying

Frans: I know, and I agree with that. I sent you an email about that an hour ago, or so about that issue.

Jeff: Yeah, and then Frans is talking about, you know, getting a 126 account or a Chinese account. The problem is I don’t know if they’re in English.

Jeff: I think you have to speak Chinese to get a Chinese email.

Patrice: Oh. Well, then we can use the Greenville Post domain can give us, you know, all kinds of branches.

Jeff: Yeah, the emails are more expensive. We have about 10 emails. Because I have two or three domains and it costs us about $100 a year. But man, I’ve got the peace of mind that I can send any email and I have never had any problems. But you can just get five emails from Greenville Post and start using that it makes it because then they have to get into the server. Then they have to get in and corrupt the server to corrupt your emails.

Patrice: Okay.

Jeff: So, we have terrific success with our internal our own domain name.

Frans: That’s right. I can confirm that I have the same thing with my genealogy website where I have a domain mail but the issue with that is they have not so sophisticated the spawn filter. So, I get more spam from that domain email than from others.

Jeff: I get no spam at all. I don’t know.

Frans: My email is posted on my website and in other places so maybe that’s the reason. I don’t know. And it’s already more than 20 years since I used that domain. And that email connected to that. So that’s probably an issue. And yeah, I have several questions regarding very technical questions. I’ve sent you an email about that.

Jeff: Okay.

Frans: I think your email and your server are somewhere in the United States, in Washington or Seattle or so it’s an Amazon server, right?

Jeff: No, no, it’s GoDaddy. It’s owned by GoDaddy.

Frans: Okay GoDaddy.

Jeff: But we’ve had no problems. All right, guys. And one gal May we have May still hanging in there.

Patrice: All right.

Frans: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Jeff: So, this is Jeff J. Brown China Writers Group signing out and thank you everybody, and have a happy New Year, the day after tomorrow. Bye-bye.

Patrice: Thank you, everybody.

Frans: Thank you very much.

Patrice: Bye-bye.

###

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