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By Jeff J. Brown

Pictured above: John Potash and his explosive, jaw-dropping book, “Drugs as a Weapon against Us: The CIA’s Murderous Targeting of SDS, Panthers, Hendrix, Lennon, Cobain, Tupac, and Other Activists”. And Americans think they live in a “democracy” with “liberty” and “freedom of the press”. What a sick joke!

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Sixteen years on the streets, living and working with the people of China, Jeff

Original interview with video and audio recordings:

John Potash talks about his explosive book, “Drugs as a Weapon against Us: The CIA’s Murderous Targeting of SDS, Panthers, Hendrix, Lennon, Cobain, Tupac, and Other Activists”. China Rising Radio Sinoland 200229

John Potash talks about his explosive book, “The FBI War On Tupac Shakur and Black Leaders – U.S. Intelligence’s Murderous Targeting of Tupac, MLK, Malcolm, Panthers, Hendrix, Marley, Rappers & Linked Ethnic Leftists”. China Rising Radio Sinoland 191217

Jeff J Brown: Good morning, everybody. This is Jeff J. Brown China Rising Radio Sinoland in Chiang Mai, China. And I am excited to have on the air tonight John Potash, 12 timezones away, halfway around the world in the United States. How are you doing, John?

John Potash: Good. Good to be with you, Jeff.

Jeff: I am so honoured to have you on the show today. And in my opinion, you have done some of the best journalism of the 21st century if its definition is to expose the truth about the lies of the empire. Let me tell you all a little bit about John.

John has been featured on C-SPAN’s American History TV, A&E, the Reelz Channel, the Real News Network and RT television networks. He has also been featured on hundreds of radio programs in the U.S, England and New Zealand, including Coast to Coast AM. He has published articles in Z magazine, Covert Action Quarterly, The Baltimore Chronicle and Rock Creek Free Press. He has worked counselling people with mental health problems and addictions for over 25 years.

And in 2015, Potash released his book, ‘Drugs as a Weapon Against US’. The CIA’s murderous targeting of SDS Panthers, Hendricks, Lennon, Cobain, Tupac and other activists. Potash complete graduate studies at Columbia University. He published his first book in 2007, ‘The FBI War on Tupac Shakur and Black Leaders: U.S Intelligence’s murderous targeting of Tupac, MLK, Malcolm, Panthers, Hendrix, Marley, Rappers & Linked Ethnic Leftists. And that’s the book that I have right here, I can show you. And I bought it and I read it. That will be the focus of our interview. So thank you for being on, John.

John: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Jeff: I want to frame your book because I find it to be incredibly important. And I can’t say enough about your ‘FBI War on Tupac Shakur’ book. Your years of research and synthesis showed just how psychopathic and paranoid the US’s elite rulers are. It is frightening to contemplate how organized and committed these mentally ill people are and the lengths they go to in order to destroy any possible disagreement to their global capitalist stranglehold on the citizens, as well as all levels of institutions, governance and media. By the time I finished your book, my head was spinning, but it needed to be spun.

I think what makes your book so compelling is all that minute details that you show about the difference about literally the extermination of black activists in particular, and all resistors’ who start making a difference regardless of skin colour or social status all over the world. His detailed proof of just how pathological our owners really are, allowed me to step back from from the nitty-gritty, down and dirty of the leaves of the trees. So I could really look at the whole global forest, for this perspective. So, John, for that, I am deeply, deeply thankful.

For all the friends, fans and followers of China rising out there, I cannot overestimate how important it is for all free thinkers and freedom lovers to read his book, ‘The FBI War on Tupac Shakur’. It’s not that expensive. But if money is an issue, then ask your local library, school, college, university, your place of worship to get it. So many others can share its wealth of discovery and truth-telling. Failing that, several friends can pool their money to buy it. Using it in a book club would make for a fascinating discussion as well. And John, you have the fans out there over the barrel, If they’re not a reader, you have the DVD to watch, which is even less money and like a stock DVD. So I’m including on the interview page, John’s website, where to buy his books and DVDs. He’s not afraid to give you his email, Skype, even his phone number. So he is readily available to be contacted. And please, do I actually order the DVD after the fact, I kind of screwed up because my wife will not read the book, but she will watch the DVD. So anyway, John, are you ready to get started? I’m sorry for that long intro.

John: That is very kind of you. Thanks a lot.

Jeff: Please tell us about yourself and how you ended up getting so involved in exposing the U.S. government’s massacre of black and left activists and the destruction of their organizations. There really are no other words to describe what you’ve written about.

John: Sure. Well, my grandfather was a socialist lawyer who had defended some Black Panthers in New York, according to my aunt. My grandfather didn’t talk about it a lot, but he did decades and decades of free work for them. And so he had some famous cases from that. For example, a black chef who killed a white cop. So, he did some great work. And according to my aunt, he got off several Black Panthers in New York. He travelled from Baltimore, my hometown, to New York to do that. But so then my father was an organized doctor against the Vietnam War. My mother was a lawyer and public defender who joined in on marches against the Vietnam War. So, I did get influenced by my family. I just had my own thoughts. I wasn’t very political. Growing up, I was more sadly into drugs and diverted by drugs.

Once I was in college, I started getting more political and then after college, I really turned into activism. And after seeing, if you’re getting involved in different activist causes, I also was drug counselling in Baltimore City doing addiction’s counselling. And one of my clients said his father was a Black Panther killed by the police.

So I started researching the Black Panthers. I was actually starting to write some activists articles at that time. And I was working on a political novel that kind of became ‘Drugs as weapons against us’, the book. But I took a tangent when I was researching the Black Panthers for my political novel and then when I heard more about Tupac Shakur, I thought, well, no one’s going to read a first sign novelist to this information, but they would be interested when I found all the information out about Tupac Shakur as he was being targeted the same way his Black Panther parents in New York were targeted. And no one was writing about it.

So I called his New York trial lawyer, Michael Treif Warren, and told him all the political magazines that I was going to try to freelance this article to. And he had read and liked the same magazine. So he said, yeah, I’ll give you a long interview about this because nobody’s writing about this. And he gave me a two-hour interview, I believe the first time I talked to him about all this. And few other people wrote that article.

At that time, the white left-wing magazines weren’t accepting something like that. They believed all the kind of mainstream ideas about Tupac Shakur, that he was really more of just a gangsta rap or they don’t know much more about him than that. So I had to publish. But I also actually got diverted, like the there was a magazine called Covert Action Quarterly based in Washington D.C and New York. And when I tried to enter their offices, I was kind of diverted out of their offices by a guy who infiltrated their staff. And he kept me from really getting that article to the top publishers. And so I could only publish in a local magazine that first article on the target of Tupac Shakur in spring of 1995 when he was still alive.

But after he died, I got them to publish in 1998. Winter of 1999, they published a long and noted article about the possible FBI targeting of Tupac Shakur with the county-owned latter-day counterintelligence program, which I’ll talk about a little more later. So that’s how it all got started. Actually, Quarterly was started by a CIA whistleblower named Philip Agee. It was a great magazine when he was running it. It actually came out again, his son has put it out again in just web form.

But you could find it a lot of places in the magazine and hard copy back then. And it won a lot of Project Censored Awards back then in the 1990s. And so when I got in there, people close to Tupac said, ‘you got to turn this into a book if you don’t tell the story, no one else seems to be willing to’. So that’s when I was working on the book, as much outside of my regular counselling work

Jeff: I mean, it’s breathtaking and my admiration for all of the people that you wrote about including Tupac. And I have listened to his music so thanks to you for the first time in my life. And the people that you describe, it’s just absolutely amazing. Thank you for that. You sound like you were well brought up.

John: Thank you.

Jeff: What is so shocking and revealing in your book is that what is going on in the US, Britain and elsewhere. This is what just slapped me in the face. This is not a case of a racist D.A in Los Angeles or some rogue cops in New York or an unethical judge in Chicago. What you have described in your book and by the way, it’s footnoted with a thousand footnotes. So, if you are into this and want to research this.

But I mean, this extermination of black activists and basically anybody who’s against the elites is a highly coordinated, orchestrated and planned elimination of any persons or groups who resist these capitalist elites and support economic justice through socialism, especially if they’re minorities.

Your book clearly draws the nonstop nexus between the CIA, the FBI, the ATF: Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, the IRS got involved, DEA courts, local police, mafia, white supremacist groups like the KKK, prison wardens in the media. I was just gobsmacked when I was reading all this. As you researched and wrote your book, were you surprised how much the total elimination of these targeted people and groups was so purposeful and highly organized? Your thoughts, please.

John: Yeah, it is incredible how many different groups the U.S. intelligence got involved in this targeting of black activists. It is incredible. It’s very sad and very tragic. So, U.S intelligence has 14 plus agencies. And in one chapter, I talk about the evolution of U.S. intelligence a little bit. But at a time, 14 plus agencies, we are talking about defence intelligence, naval intelligence, army intelligence, CIA, of course, FBI.

Focused much more on the FBI than anyone else but I do mention parts in and parts out. For example, Los Angeles Black Panther leader Geronimo Pratt’s legal team found that the CIA also had documents on their targeting Pratt as well as the FBI did then that CIA was working with the FBI in targeting Geronimo Pratt. But so it’s just the example. And with you mentioned ATF, I’ll give an example on that. ATF agents said that the FBI was working with them. He said this in court, that the FBI was working with them. They were offering money, murder contract to actually to Oakland Hells Angels. You didn’t mention, of course.

Jeff: I forgot the Hells Angels.

John: Yeah. I mean, how couldn’t you there are so many, different groups. And so they put these other groups in between them and the actual murder in order to for people not to find out who is really behind the murder. So they put a murder contract on the National Black Panther Minister of information, Eldridge Cleaver through the Hells Angels. They also put that murder contract on Cesar Chavez who was the migrant farmworkers organizer who started that great boycott back in the 70s.

I think you might remember that now. But anyway, so this is the way they do things. They try to get some distance between them and the actual assassination of these black leaders. They don’t want to be found out. So with Martin King, for example, they actually according to the top investigator, Martin King William Pepper who was a friend of King’s before he died. He is now an Oxford attorney who teaches human rights classes at Oxford University in England.

And so Pepper wrote two incredible books on active state and orders to kill about the assassination of Martin King. And he found that the FBI and CIA agents met with the top New York crime boss, family leaders and offered them a million dollars to take out Martin King, to assassinate Martin King. And they actually rejected that offer. But the top mafia kingpin in the Louisiana area who also lorded over Texas and some other states Carlos Marcelo took that offer.

And Marcelo apparently then recontracted out to a Smart level mafia in Memphis, Tennessee to help U.S. intelligence carry out the assassination of Martin King. So, I have a chapter one that consolidating all that Pepper found in his book about the assassination of Martin King.

Now, the Shakurs’ was a very interesting window for me into the assassination of many of these great black leaders. The Shakurs’ were excellent grassroots, black activists. And so the purpose of my using Tupac Shakur and his family is the fact that he became a worldwide celebrity in his short 25 years of life because he is incredibly talented, incredibly bright, very appealing as a music star and all that.

And so he’s loved worldwide. So I thought through him, people list will start to learn about the history of all these great black leaders over the course of the last 5 or 6 decades in the real history of them, both in their great activist, organizing along with the way U.S. intelligence murdered them, assassinated a lot of these great leaders. And so this was my goal with this book and to shape it through the Shakur family.

And people have told me that they are like I have a black radio host here at Pacific Radio in Washington D.C who I’m friends with and he is a great activist himself. But he says he couldn’t get his daughter to read some really good books on, like Martin King or the Black Panthers until he gave her my book and she’s in her 20s or so. And when we gave her my book, she read that immediately. And so that’s the entree, I believe. But Shakur’s’ are important to talk about anyway. So I’m so glad to talk about them because they were amazing.

They started with the father of these Black Panther leaders. His name was Saladin Aba Shakur. And he was first a part of Marcus Garvey’s group, the United Negro Improvement Association, and who Malcolm X’s father was part of. And then he became a close associate of Malcolm X’s within the inner circle of Malcolm X before Malcolm X was assassinated in New York. And so Saladin Aba Shakur lived in New York and he adopted some kids but he also had his own biological sons, Lumumba Shakur and Zayd Shakir.

And so Lumumba Shakur became the leader of the Harlem Black Panthers and Zayd Shakur became one of the leaders of the Bronx Black Panthers. And so they joined Malcolm X’s group before Malcolm X was assassinated. But they had a very short time in Malcolm X’s group. But they were recognized as black leaders for being in Malcolm X’s group by the California Black Panthers. Huey Newton, Bobby Seale who started the Black Panthers in Oakland in 1966. And Afeni Shakur was quickly recognized as a brilliant young woman.

She and Shakur married but because of different circumstances, while they were in prison, they end up getting divorced. And Afeni Shakur had slept with another Panther member when she was out of jail, while Lumumba was in jail. And so she got pregnant with Tupac while she was out of jail and then gave birth to him within months of helping get herself out of jail. And she defends herself in court was considered as the reason that the Black Panther 21 got off in court, got off all charges in court. Which was called the longest trial in New York history at that time, actually.

And so that’s pretty amazing, that the U.S. intelligence brought to the table to target them. And yes, it involved the CIA, involved with Huey Newton involved the IRS as you mentioned, and the FBI was found by different investigators who interviewed different FBI agents that they had infiltrated the Ku Klux Klan but did nothing to stop their actions. And they were at one particular biography of an FBI agent, they said, who was at virtually every major KKK conflagration. He was just there. And what was he doing, why he didn’t stop anything, why he didn’t arrest anybody.

Jeff: Yeah. Watching, taking notes, this is how you do it.

John: Right. Or making sure that it worked properly. So, that’s the question. And some FBI agents were undercover within the KKK during the Atlanta child murders. And one blew the whistle. There was a movie, it was actually a spin magazine, a series of articles done about this whistleblower in a Georgia Bureau of Investigation who infiltrated the KKK and described all the evidence that the KKK was behind the Atlanta child murders in the 1980s. Dozens and dozens of black kids were killed. And then they pretend like they found the killer. It was a black DJ in the area is doing all the killing, they said. But the murders continued after that, but the press hid the continuation of murders, is what I have heard about that. And it’s just terrible how that stuff is happening.

Jeff: We are laughing but it’s catharsis because it’s so tragic. I just don’t even know how to cope with all of this.

John: It is laughable the way they do what they do because it’s so blatant and so horrible. But I think at the same time, tragic for the black community and it’s tragic for all of us. It’s tragic for The United States of America. I mean, anyone who’s got a soul who loved Martin Luther King and loved to a lot these black leaders, and they could have been the great leaders of our country because Robert F. Kennedy actually asked Martin Luther King to be his running mate if I win the nomination, you are my running mate for my vice president, for you know,

If I run for the presidency, make it to the general election and make it out of the primaries. And so he was expected to make it out of primaries. Martin King could have been our vice president and our president way before Obama because of the foresight and lack of prejudice by that time of Robert F. Kennedy. And it’s so sad that we all ethnic groups lost these great leaders, not just the black community.

Jeff: And another thing that I also was really impressed with, is that these black leaders who have been massacred and illegally they are basically prisoners of conscience have been locked up for years and years and years. Their lives ruined, families ruined. But they also mention the Latinos and Native Americans, they paid their respects for all the Latinos and the Native Americans that have been exterminated too. And I actually have written a lot about genocide in my books.

A definition of genocide is the organized extermination of a group of people based on their race, politics, religion, ethnicity, ethnicity or geographical location, which the latter is often called ethnic cleansing. Like what the Israelis do daily in Palestine. Based on this definition, do you think that the U.S. government has committed genocide on black, native and left activists, why or why not?

John: Definitely. And so the list goes on now mainstream media overlaps with these oligarchs, other multinational corporations, and that’s part of the way they control our information. Ben Beck Dickey???, the former head of the USC California Berkeley School of Journalism, wrote about this in the media monopoly, how it is basically six corporations that control 90 plus percent of our information in the United States. And these corporations overlap share boards of directors with oil companies, pharmaceuticals, banks, insurance companies, then defence industry course, in a big way.

And so they have to do their bidding by corporate law for shareholder stocks and stuff like that. So anyway, that’s part of the way it works. So, they went and murdered, committed genocide. I mean, basically, I cover the cutting off of the heads of these great groups, throw off the leaders and they leave the rest just a little bit as leaderless and having a hard time knowing what direction to go in when they kill off some of the leaders.

I show all the evidence that they were behind, obviously, the murder, assassination or the Martin king, the assassination of Malcolm X, the assassination of the Los Angeles Black Panther’s first leaders of John Huggins and Bunchy Carter, the assassination of the Chicago Black Panther leader, Fred Hampton. They killed just loads of Los Angeles leaders imprisoned who they didn’t kill for many years, nobody trusting them. And then they eventually killed others, too, the co-founder of the National Black Panthers, Huey Newton.

And so this is genocide. Yes, I mentioned they ran child murders but there’s more than that. I just kept it mostly covering the leaders because there’s just not enough room, it would have been a much larger book. And a lot of people won’t read a much larger book when I cover all of what I believe is the genocide. But, I hint to a good bit of it. I do think that’s what it is. And when it comes to the Latino community, get to talk a bit about the way they targeted Latin America.

And you mentioned before how the black leaders pay respect to Latino leaders and Native Americans. And so the American Indian movement said that they learned from the Black Panthers and copied the way they organized. And the person that founded the Young Lords, which was the Latino version of the Black Panthers, who was Jose Cha Cha Jimenez actually followed Bobby Seale through his organization in his work to learn for a month.  But Bobby Seale allowed Cha Cha Jiminez to come and follow him and learn how he did what he did and to do his own thing with Latinos, which has spread to dozens of cities, the young Lords organizing.

And so, I took organizing classes in grad school and learned a lot about community organizing. And a number of community organizers considered the Black Panthers as some of the top community organizers in the country. That’s really, really what they were. They were community organizers that armed themselves with guns just for self-defence from the incredible police brutality that was out there in the 1960s. Now, obviously hasn’t stopped today.

Jeff: Yeah, no kidding. Your book for those of you who are not a big reader, the whole book is only 196 pages long. Actually, one-fourth of the book is all basically footnotes. So if you get you to get a nice 200-page quick read in less than 200 pages. And then if you want to do all the research, he’s got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of references.

Well again, I want to try to look at the big picture and the list of police state, these fascist operations are endless.

You discussed bribery, extortion, blackmail, murder, assassinations, torture, terrorism, false flags, importing and pushing cocaine and heroin sales into poor/minority neighbourhoods, fomenting gang wars, illegal imprisonment, fake and planted evidence. Evidence supporting the target is ignored or suppressed. Rigged kangaroo court trials, psyops, which is basically fake news in the media, and black ops like forged letters, crimes and conspiracies fabricated out of thin air, entrapment agents infiltrating families, friends, businesses and legal teams, CIA/FBI rented companies, CIA agents working at all levels of business and media with big business piling on to provide support within for a guard.

Your book showed me that the United States is not a liberal democracy with the free press, but a totalitarian regime that crushes any and all dissent or as Sheldon Wolin called it, inverted totalitarianism. We obviously grew up very privileged, white, middle class, etc. But do you agree, especially for those who are the targets?

John: Yes. And this all appeared to start in the, you know if you could find an actual start to it. But you could say it started in the early 1980s, this kind of genocide against ethnic groups. I like to call the elite as the oligarchs. I know the elite is a sociological term, sociology uses that for the wealthiest. But I call them the oligarchs and also the racist oligarchs because they are incredibly prejudiced. So, you got the eugenics movement starting in the 19-teens, which I get more into my next book, was worth talking about a little bit here.

It’s basically the J.P. Morgan family, the Rockefeller family, the Carnegie’s, the Harriman’s and maybe one or two other families are all involved in funding this eugenics movement that had laws passed in the majority of the states of our country in the 19-teens feeling, you know, eugenics laws were deeming loads like virtually all ethnic groups inferior, like genetically inferior by different percentages. Now, blacks, they said like 90 percent were inferior genetics and Jews were about 50 percent, Catholics 30 percent were inferior.

Jeff: I shouldn’t be laughing. But it is just like something out of a Peter Seller’s movie.

John: It’s mind-boggling, isn’t it? A lot of it comes from a guy, Edwin Black’s book, War Against the Weak, which is probably the best documentation about the eugenics movement. And it’s been translated into loads of different languages. It’s got incredible documentation of its references. And basically said these families funded this and went on for decades until World War Two when they had funded when most West European countries wouldn’t accept the funding of these eugenics folks.

But only Germany, which was so devastated by World War One, they were so devastated that they took money from anywhere because they needed it. And so the Nazi movement was really funded by the eugenics folks of the United States. There was some collaboration with the aristocrats from England. But they put tons of money into the Nazis philosophy, it was basically eugenics philosophy and tons of money to their rise.

And sadly enough, you mentioned Israel and Zionism, Zionism was a very small percentage of Jews in the United States. Edwin Black estimated that it was about two percent of the Jewish community, actually considered themselves Zionist in the early 1900s. But they put so much money into these groups that pretended like Zionism was popular among all Jews, and they got an agreement, something called, one of the Edwin Black books which were the transfer agreement, which is about how worldwide protests, partly Jews, partly labour, partly everyone who was just against what was going on in Germany, almost toppled Hitler.

But they pretended like these, you know, the wealthiest of the Jews collaborated with the oligarchs of the eugenics movement and had these groups that they pretended were National Jewish groups. But they are really just a few wealthy families and front groups pretty much that said, we are getting out of this protest, this boycott of Germany. And so it kind of crumbled the boycott at a time when Hitler was about to fall and the Nazis were about to fall because the boycott was working against them. And part of that agreement that led to the stopping the boycott was the transfer agreement was a sending a lot of Jews to Israel and forming this new country of Israel. And so it’s a real shame that it got perverted that way.

Israel’s just been a puppet of U.S. interests ever since to control the world regions. And I think good researches are showing Netanyahu with CIA from day one. Any leader that tried to turn against that Israeli policy against the Palestinians is assassinated. And then there’s an intelligence plot assassinations. So that’s the way I see it. And it’s just terrible what’s going on there. But, I think, majority of Jews actually are changing and are actually saying we are pro Palestinian rights.

Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn and lots of other Jewish intellectual leaders were actually for Palestinian rights and against what Israel is doing. But in terms of the totalitarianism here, I mean, it’s incredible what they’re doing the 99 percent in general. The way they do it, though, is so devious in the sense first thing. Anti-war activists in 1971 broke into the FBI office and stole all the papers in that FBI office in Media, Pennsylvania and exposed it.

And they say they made tons of copies of these documents to find out that it was called the counterintelligence program was their targeting of leftists in general, but particularly brutally against black leftists and murderously against black leftists, obviously.

So they had it all in writing all these different tactics that you mentioned in your question. And so I just laid a lot of these tactics out in my book. But they were there in FBI’s own writing about own documents.

Now, the mainstream media covered a little bit but they basically covered it up a lot. It took like just smaller presses to get out more of the information and books from well-meaning activists, scholars such as Ward Churchill and Vander Wall who wrote the COINTELPRO Papers. It took a lot of his papers and put them showed copies of them. Showed the way they targeted the Native American Indian movement, the way they targeted the Young Lords, the way they targeted SDS which was the white student for a democratic society and the largest anti-war movement. And, of course, in the biggest way, they targeted the Black Panthers, the Revolutionary Action Movement which was another great black activist group, the Republic of New Africa, which was started by Tupac’s stepfather Mutulu Shakur.

And some other great black activists, the Black Liberation Army, which was what the Black Panthers became when they were forced underground and needed to really, use guns more to defend themselves and Tupac’s uncles Zayd Shakur was one of the founding members of the Black Liberation Army, and the Assata Shakir were very close with Zayd Shakur because she didn’t found the Black Liberation Army but when she was forced to go underground, she was scared for her life. She did come part of them, and now she’s a political refugee in Cuba.

Jeff: In Cuba, yeah. I read about her.

John: And so that’s just basically the way it’s gone and what in a lot of these FBI documents obviously show that targeting but they found later CIA documents that also went the way that the CIA joined in on this targeting. And yes, it’s an incredible totalitarian situation. But it’s incredibly well masked, too, by the collaborating mainstream media-savvy enough.

Jeff: Yeah. Two quick points. The billionaire families that you mentioned that started the eugenics movement. Those were the families that started the CIA, which you’ve written about. And then I just want to point out that not only did Hitler get the eugenics program from the West, Hitler also got his concentration camp concept from the United States with their Indian reservations. So Hitler is all American.

Reading your book showed me how filth, fearful and insecure America’s elites. And I will quit using elites, thanks to you and I’ll start saying, oligarchs. They are so afraid of any dissent that they just kill anyone who stands up for the little guy or they lock them away in prison for long prison terms to shut them up. They must be incredibly afraid, what do you think?

John: Yeah. I think blacks have done great organizing and there is so much black history we don’t know about. They’ve had so many incredible inventions. They have done so many things, so about black history that I’ve learned about slowly but surely. And I still learn about every day. For example, there is a new show on HBO called The Watchmen and they happen to talk about black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

And so they had an incredible thriving black community with great financial. Despite all the institutional racism, they were doing fantastically for themselves there in Oklahoma before white mobs just burned it all down, burned the black community down and killed thousands of blacks, and even had planes dropping bombs on black homes and in black institutions, it is just horrible.

Anyway so, it is so much hidden history there. And so there is a great black grassroots movements like, as I mentioned before, the Revolutionary Action Movement. But also the new African People’s Organization is a great activist group, it was founded by former Black Panthers and former members of Republican New Africa. And they’re still around today, but they were doing great work. New African Panthers was Tupac’s young adult section of that group.

And I just think that they are scared that blacks are going to gain the right to real democracy. They are going to organize to a point where they are going to be a role model for socialism, for one thing, because they were devout socialist, you know, the Black Panthers. And they’re gonna show a different economic model in there, free breakfast programs and free medical programs, free political education classes, all kinds of things like that. They were going to show a different way, a socialist kind of economic model, a different form of organizing to all these other ethnic groups, which they did.

And that’s why they’re such a threat. That’s why J. Edgar Hoover, the director of the FBI, called them the top threat in the country because U.S. intelligence represented the wealthiest oligarchs that are just about Reagan-capitalism, hyper-capitalism with monopolies where 99% are struggling to make it, struggling to pay off debt, struggling with incredible health insurance costs, college costs. While the 1% or less than 1%, really the 0.01%, have the vast majority of wealth in this country. And they are trying to increase that so they can make themselves wealthy and wealthier while the 99% are getting less and less. And that’s the threat of these black activists, I think.

Jeff: Wow. Well, I absolutely agree with you. There are so many things we could discuss your book. I mean, we could have an interview on Tupac, the guy was obviously had an IQ of 240 and was just brilliant. And all these people were brilliant and talented. It’s just amazing. But there was one thing that you kept mentioning that stuck out and I just think it kind of just illustrates how programmed and organized and institutionalized the genocide of black activists especially, but just about anybody who threatens or gains enough of a following to threaten the oligarchs that they take him out either by killing them or framing them to put them in jail. And one of those is called timed threats. Please tell us about this phenomenon.

John: Sure. Well, I called it the threat timing tactic or the anniversary timing tactic. Since this book is centred on Tupac Shakur, I will now talk a little more about him in particular. The thread timing tactic, I got the idea for it when I read William Pepper’s book, I think it was ‘Orders to Kill’ he wrote about it in. When the exact year anniversary of Martin King officially stating his opposition to the Vietnam War in a famous Riverside Church speech, he officially came out as being against the Vietnam War when the exact year anniversary of that famous speech, he was assassinated. And William Pepper said, ‘he wonders if it’s just a coincidence or that was purposeful’.

Now, I found so many more anniversary timing tactics when I was researching the Black Panthers and Tupac Shakur and finding out about another famous black leader Patrice Lumumba and Laurent Kabila, who was his sidekick in the Congo. I just mentioned them in my book because I don’t think it’s just a coincidence. I think it is trying to implant in all of us the subconscious idea that if you go against our wishes, this is what’s going to happen to you, it’s a psychological tactic. Because I am a counsellor and I know learn a lot about the subconscious as a counsellor and been counselling for over three decades now. And yes, a lot happens in our subconscious that we don’t realize consciously, but whether it’s consciously or subconsciously, we pick a lot more up, subconsciously that if you go against this then you could die.

And so when the three year anniversary of Huey Newton’s death, for example. Huey Newton was the co-founder of the Black Panthers nationally and Tupac was consulting with Huey Newton in Newton’s last year of life because Tupac was heading the New African Panthers at that time. They were active in eight to ten cities around the country. They were trying to replicate the Black Panthers. They were about the same ages as Black Panthers when they had first started. And so Tupac was consulting regularly with Huey Newton and he was also consulting with his godfather, Geronimo Pratt, who was the Los Angeles Black Panther leader who was in prison at the time.

But Tupac was visiting him in prison and consulting with him about leading the New African Panthers. Then Tupac left that New African Panther leadership where he was the leader for about a year and decided to get to music because he had a chance to tour with a Grammy nominee group called the Digital Underground and Tour worldwide with him. He thought you could possibly use rap as a better vehicle for his activism than just regular organizing and with the New African Panthers.

And so after exact three year anniversary of Huey Newton’s murder, he was murdered on the exact year anniversary that he came out with the fact that he was ending the East Coast vs. West Coast rift and fight and holding a press conference saying, I’m not going to leave jail until Geronimo Pratt is released from jail. And originally the FBI’s counterintelligence program created a great rift between Huey Newton at Geronimo Pratt and then a number of other Black Panther leaders. But he was ending that rift and reuniting a lot of different Black Panther leaders.

And so the one year anniversary of him calling that press conference and saying he wouldn’t leave until Pratt is let out of jail. But the next day Pratt convinced him to leave jail and help him from the outside, Huey Newton’s assassinated. And then three year anniversary of Huey Newton being assassinated, there is a Rinne festival were Tupac is like the honorary guest of Rin’s annual fest. And at that fest, there were Tupac was shot at and then beaten and just barely survived by crawling under police car to not get beaten to death by a crazy mob. And it showed all the signs of a long coordinated FBI attack. But they failed to kill him, but it was very close to killing him and this was under police watch. And so then two years later, Tupac is shot in New York recording studio lobby.

And they put a bullet in him to put him and get him on the ground and then two bullets in the back of the skull that went out the front of the skull and barely missed his brain. He just miraculously survived. It is obviously an assassination attempt. The police called it a botched robbery in the most well-lit area in the world during at n the Times Square. And so one of the surveillance camera for the lobby recording it was at a recording studio lobby.

And the guard who worked there said here is the videotape of the shooters. The police took it and closed the case and bailed that see here’s the shooters, we would look for them. They just closed the case. Anyway, at that incident, witness name Randy Stretch Walker, who was a friend of Tupac, talked about what happened there on the exact year anniversary that he was murdered. And he was a witness to some of these people that did the shooting.

And then after Tupac was assassinated on the night of Mike Tyson fight. Six months later, at the next Mike Tyson fight, Biggie Smalls was murdered. And I believe that Biggie was starting to speak out and say he didn’t have any beef with Tupac and he didn’t think it was because of East Coast West Coast thing. But he was murdered. And I argue that it was a part of making it look like East Coast West Coast beef between two rappers.

But I argue that it was more of a threat timing tactic that if you speak out against what they want you to speak out against if you try to get into any kind of activism or don’t toe the line, this is what can happen to you. And so, it goes on from there with Patrice Lumumba when it was the 40th or 50th year anniversary of Patrice Lumumba assassination by the CIA. Laurent Kabila, his sidekick, could become a leader of the Congo, was then assassinated himself.

Jeff: Yeah, on that anniversary. And also, I think the US government operation, the Oklahoma City bombing. By the way, I am from Oklahoma so I know all about the Tulsa black communities. The Oklahoma City bombing happened exactly after one year on the same date as the Branch Davidian, which was also an American government operation to destroy dissenters. Also, 9/11 happened on an anniversary. I can’t remember what it was.

John:  The Chileans’ toppling Salvador Allende on September 11, 1973.

Jeff: Unbelievable. Let’s try to end this on a positive note. The list of murders, we have got to get it out.

John: Yes. I just say, Tupac in his short life inspired millions worldwide to do what he did, which is turn into activism. And so that itself is positive. The Black Panthers, the truth about them is finally coming out as his incredible community organizers and they’re inspiring tons of people. But, you want to ask about the people that are still alive.

Jeff: Yeah.  The list of murdered and illegally prisoned activist in your book is so long, it’s so sobering to consider. There are stories of incredible courage and fearless resistance are remarkable. Not to mention their amazing creativity, intelligence and art. And I’m going to start listening to rap now, and I want to get Tupac’s book of poetry.

So many were slain by their government for supporting the 99 percent and so many others lives were destroyed, locked up in prison. For example, Mumia Abu-Jamal is still illegally locked up as a prisoner of conscience in spite of massive public support from around the world. Your book was last reprinted in 2015. Since then, is there any good news about the ones who were not massacred.

John: Well, they found two boxes of hidden evidence that the prosecutor kept from the Mumia Abu-Jamal’s defence attorneys. And so it looks like Mumia is going to get a new trial. We’re still waiting to see this new judge on the case that ruled somewhat Mumia’s favour. That looks like he will get a new trial, just not sure when. So that’s good news. In terms of some of the Black Panthers, they have gotten out of jail after decades.

Baltimore Black Panther leader Eddie Conway got out of jail and is doing great work here in Baltimore, my hometown and his hometown with the Real News Network, which is a great media group out of Baltimore. And so that’s really nice. I’ve been on there twice now and it’s been good. The Bronx Black Panther leader Sekou Odinga, whose wife was head of Tupac’s new record label that he just started right before he died called euthanasia. Bronx Black Panther leader Sekou Odinga got out jail just sometime last five years and is doing good work. And his former wife, Yaasmyn Fula, is still doing good work herself, though they lost their son. He was in Tupac’s backup group and his name was Yaefu Fula and he was murdered.

He was the top witness to Tupac’s murder and thought he could identify the killer. And he was murdered within a few months of Tupac’s assassination. Kathleen Cleaver was the national spokesperson for the Black Panther Party and she is still teaching law now. She was a visiting professor at Yale University just in the last five years. Former gang leader turned socialist activist Sanyika Shakur, whose original name was Monster Kody Scott, wrote a New York Times bestseller called ‘Monster’. He is out of jail again and getting back into activism and writing more books. He is a great writer. Mutulu Shakur should be out of jail and should have been released but they are keeping him in jail. He is Tupac stepfather, but he is still alive and still trying to get the word out.

And there is a Chicago based Fred Hampton Junior. His father was the head of Chicago Black Panthers. Fred Hampton Junior is doing great work. He started a group of prisoners of conscience committee, and they’re a national group doing great grassroots activists work. Harry Belafonte I talked about in my book is still live at 90 years old. It’s amazing. And he’s still inspiring tons of people, he inspired Danny Glover. Danny Glover is a great artist.

He worked with Mel Gibson in some of his famous movies. They did three movies together, I forget the names. But Glover is a great actor who was doing great activist’s work here. He has stumped for Bernie Sanders number of times. He’s just done like grassroots work. Also, Tupac estate should be releasing a new Tupac C.D sometime next year or two years.

Jeff: I’ll buy it. I am a huge Tupac fan.

John: And so Black Panther leader National co-founder Bobby Seale is still doing good work and inspiring people to. He’s still alive and inspiring people.

Jeff: Wow. And Assata Shakur is still in Cuba. They haven’t gotten to her yet. She’s a symbol of escaping the clutches of the Oligarchs.

Your work is just absolutely amazing. By the way, before we sign out, you in the back of your book, it’s actually after all the 100 pages of footnotes. There’s a point by Fred Hampton Junior. And it’s so good, I loved it so much. I don’t know how to contact Mr Hampton. And so I asked you if he thought he would mind. And so at the end of the article for John’s interview on China Rising Radio Sinoland, I transcribed it from the book and include the story at the end t kind of celebrate because it’s just a beautiful and powerful voice against the oligarchs.

So anyway, you’re a busy guy. You’re helping people get off drugs and get their lives in order. You’ve got a family to take care of. What other projects do you have in the pipeline?

John: Well, I’m now working on a political novel, and I’m getting there with that. I would probably create some kind of movie with that, too. It is my next project and it’s kind of a nonfiction and fiction in one. But it’s just it’s mostly trying to stay humorous and entertaining throughout, a little spin on it.

Jeff: I want to write fiction, too. So I am going to get my fourth book out on China and the evils of the Western Empire. I want to do fiction, maybe we can give each other advice.

John: Yeah. That’s great, Jeff.

Jeff: You have been a terrific guest. I have read your second book and maybe I can get you back on the air to talk because it’s a completely different spin. It’s just another mind-boggling amazing book that you just cannot conceive what is going on in our country. But anyway, thank you so much for being on. I will get this out in the next couple of days and hopefully, we can both blasted across the planet Earth and help some of these people. Maybe you can also help introduce me to some of your contacts and I would love to have them on the show in the months ahead.

John: Great. Thanks a lot, Jeff. Talk to you soon.

Jeff: Talk to you later, John. Bye-bye. I will stay in touch.

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