Matt Ehret, Quan Le and Jeff J. Brown discuss Western misconceptions about China. China Rising Radio Sinoland 230118


By Jeff J. Brown

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Matt Ehret: Welcome to a Canadian Patriot (the Canadian patriot – A Sovereign Voice in a Chorus of Nations) special podcast here where I’m very, very pleased to be joined by my good friends Jeff J. Brown and Dr. Quan Le.

Jeff Brown, for those who have already watched our previous presentations or in dialogs is the co- founder of the Bioweapons Truth Commission and the curator of this incredible resource for anybody who wants to know any all things bioweapons, bioterror, since I would say even before World War Two, but especially after World War two, and the abuses done that fall far outside of things that you typically find in history books, but are very important, especially in the day that we’re currently living in. Jeff is also, the host of China Rising Radio Sinoland podcast and is also, the curator of the China Writer’s Group, where both Dr. Quan and myself have had the pleasure of interfacing with a lot of like-minded people. Thank you, Jeff, for doing this.

Dr. Quan has been an old friend. He’s an incredible mind for anybody who has watched his presentations for the Rising Tide Foundation. He is a Rising Tide Foundation advisor. He is a historian, somebody with a very deep a finger on a deep pulse of geopolitics, history, and most importantly, culture, cultural dynamics with a with a broad appreciation for the mind, how the mind expresses certain very important constants, and also, that touch on both wisdom and also, folly that express themselves at different times in East as well as in Western cultural matrices. Quan is also, what gives him, I think, a particularly interesting edge. On top of being a Confucian-Platonist is also, a psychiatrist, hence Dr. Quan Le. So Dr. Le, thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Quan Le: My pleasure.

Matt: The day what? This might be the first of a series of these sorts of discussions. One thing that I encounter that I’m sure you guys also, encounter in your own ways is that a lot of the people, the best people that we’re trying to organize, trying to communicate geopolitical insights to on a on a regular basis find themselves generally in a camp which has woken up to the ugly reality that they’re being manipulated by historical conspiracies that recognize the dangers of things like the Great Reset, which or has different names, great narrative as a new one, different things that are professing to try to usher in a post reset age, which looks a lot more like technocratic feudalism than many of those actually promoting this great reset idea would admit. so that’s all well and good, and it’s good that people are waking up to these things. But the problem that I’m getting is the idea, and I think this has a lot to do with the storm of misinformation, narrative, reframing. The information landscape is skewed with psyops and again, just controlled false narratives to try to deflect attention away from who are the actual dark forces in hence manipulating this shit show both in the present but also, in in history.

And instead, people are being deflected, their minds are being pushed more towards the conclusion that it’s the big bad Chinese. At the end of the day, behind all of the things that are that are making the afraid of the future, whether enemy we’re given enough imagery again, images, videos taken out of context that we’re being told how to think about, feel about. so today I’d like to just debunk or deal with a few of these topics. We have a good friend, Ron Bazar as well, who had proposed a few questions, a few topics that he would like to see address.

So, I wrote a few of those down and we could talk about those. One of them today. Let’s start with the big one. Chinese, the Chinese are, and this is what I get in a lot of people who are confused. The Chinese people are an enslaved people controlled by an anti-religious, anti-moral Marxist machine automaton, which is incompatible with freedom and is all about state control of everything. Freedom doesn’t exist in China. There’s a big one to start with, but I figured it’s a big one. It’s always good to start big. So, I don’t know. What do you guys, if you want, you want to.

Jeff J. Brown: Well, I’ll go. Well, I’ll just give you a wonderful anecdotal story. Okay. Back when my daughter was going to University of Beijing Normal in 2017, we were back in in France and we were on the Champs-Elysées. And it can’t get more Western, Western culture than that. And we were sitting there having a coffee. We’d been back from China. She’s half French and half American. And we were sitting there, a beautiful summer day, and she’d been here for about three weeks in France. And, she said, “You know, Daddy, it’s really weird. I feel like I have more freedom in China than I do here”. And I think that was extremely profound.

And I, so I think we need to start with what is the definition of freedom? In China, freedom is not holding up a placard in Tiananmen Square and saying, you know, Xi Jinping sucks. That’s not freedom in China. Freedom in China is not being worried about getting raped and murdered and shot down. Freedom is not having police killing people, like in the US and injuring thousands of people like they do here in France. Freedom is having ability to maintain family connections, etc. A house to live in, an education, opportunities, equality, hope, a bright future. You know, looking towards a bright future. And of course, as we all know. Every Chinese going back to the times of before the Han Dynasty going way back. Every Chinese has always been able to go to the authorities and make a complaint.

And that has been a part of a parcel and part of Chinese culture going back millennia is to make complaints to the government, make complaints, and then they can take their complaints to a higher level. And as you all know, every year there’s thousands of people, we use to see it in Beijing. They would go to Beijing, they would go to the Great Hall of the People. And, you know, handing letters, to the National People’s Congress for redress.

So, in America, it seems to be that freedom is being able to hold up a placard that says, you know, Biden sucks or Trump sucks or, you know, Gays, Guns and God. That seems to be the to me, the defining definition of Western freedom. And of course, that is not copacetic in China, because that’s a loss of face to the to the Chinese culture. And it’s pointless. It doesn’t prove anything. And so, I complained, myself complained to my local authorities in China when I lived there for 16 years and I got results. But you have to do it properly. You go to the authorities and you sign your name. You tell them what’s going on and they write it down and they act on it. So, that’s freedom. And I find the freedom in China much more effective, better results oriented and less divisive, and it eliminates all the identity politics, etc.

Matt: That’s why I’m going to I’m going to jump in as a devil’s advocate and then I’m going to ask Quan to chime in on his thoughts. But what about those people who would say, but Jeff, if you if you go and express your problems about the governance of China, aren’t you going to have your social credit crushed? Aren’t you going to be prohibited from going to school or being allowed to travel and just have your life destroyed? If you speak up, what do you say? That’s a big one. What do you say to that?

Jeff: Well, another point of course, what you say at the dinner table is whatever you want to say. But right now, I can go online and Sina Weibo or WeChat. You know, all these there’s about 20 social, social media platforms in China. There are Mao haters and Mao lovers. There are Deng haters and Deng lovers, and there are Jiang Zemin haters, lovers and Hu Jintao pro/con. And there’s anti-party people, who don’t like the Communist Party. And then there’s the ultra-Party people who want the Party to be even more, you know, quote, “communist” than it is.

And so, the Chinese have always expressed themselves. They have never feared, they do not fear their government. They do not fear, there’s 300 to 500 protests a day, public protests a day in China. Yeah, it’s a part, it’s a part of their DNA. I mean, and they’re not afraid of the cops. The cops are not going to beat them. I’m sure it happens sometimes. You know, they lose their temper but, you know, no, that’s doesn’t happen very often. I mean, you can say, well, in the Rightist Movement, you know, they went after the Rightists with the, you know, Let 100 Flowers Bloom Campaign.

Yet, those were also people who were counterrevolutionaries and trying to harm the country, although there were some innocent people who got persecuted. But in general, the Chinese say what they want, and they are pretty fearless about it. And I don’t think they are too paranoid that you can’t go and say what you want. I mean, if you want to go to the city hall and say my name is such and such and I think Xi Jinping is a jerk, okay, It doesn’t prove anything and it’s not positive and it doesn’t cause anything to change for the better. And so those kind of complaints, you know, I’m sure, don’t go very far. But if they say, I think that we should do this and this and this. Then I think there’s maybe a chance that it would definitely be put into the database, right?

Matt: Yeah. There’s more of a dialog process with the government and the people and the fact that there are hundreds of protests all over China. That’s an important one that we are not aware about.

Jeff: Every…

Matt: Day. Yeah, Yeah, every day. That’s good. Dr. Le, how about yourself regarding this idea of the Chinese as a terrible, totalitarian, atheistic monolith that wants to spread its values, its value system of no values around the world and destroy Western freedom. How do you how do you think about that? And how do you think about what Jeff just said?

Quan: Well, I’m very grateful for Jeff to having mentioned all the practical stuff, like the 500 protests a day or the numerous e-platforms on which the Chinese citizens can express themselves. I just want to take 30 seconds for an anecdote. One of my friends witnessed a very aggressive Chinese woman talking to a policeman and she was going to attack him, and she even tried to bite him. So, the policeman answered, “Ma’am, I would have to arrest you if you bite me”, and she didn’t! So, I think that the Chinese citizens are not afraid of the policemen in China, to have that kind of attitude.

Sometimes a small anecdote talks volumes, but I would like to come back to more fundamental stuff in China. And I think that Jeff’s talked a little bit about that. You have to distinguish between freedom and license. Let’s not forget that the Chinese society comes from the Chinese civilization, and the Chinese civilization is a very old one. And the pervasive mentality in East Asia is a top-down society. And what I mean by top-down society is a society based on epistemological development or an epistemological journey in the sense that it’s almost in the Chinese DNA to understand that some people are more developed in their mind, a more epistemological development in their mind, and consequently in their behavior, meaning they are closer to freedom than to license.

And Jeff gave an excellent example. What is the usefulness for a guy named XY going to the local police station and stating that Xi Jinping is a jerk? What is the usefulness for that? For him? For the society, for the police station? That’s an example of what I call a lack of judgment or license in behavior. A freedom in behavior means that you understand your value, your capacity to act for the society. And what is your role inside that society if you are not happy with your social level within that society, you can work on yourself.

To be more advanced epistemologically speaking, so you will be worthy of higher positions in society. So, you would be capable to make that society advance. so that’s what I mean by top-down mentality society. And a very good friend of the West, Japan is also a top-down society. South Korea is a good friend of the West, is also a top-down society. I guarantee you that when a South Korean goes to Beijing or to Shanghai or a guy from Singapore go to Beijing, that person doesn’t have any problem with that Eastern Asian mentality because that mentality of top-down society or I would say epistemologically-oriented society is perfectly crystal clear in the mind of all Asians.

From age of five, I would say maybe I’m exaggerating a little bit, maybe age ten rather than age five. The other thing that I would like to say, too, is that concerning the question of civilization, the name of China that is translated into the PRC, the People’s Republic of China. I would say it’s an acceptable working translation, but it’s not the true meaning of Zhonghua Renmin Gongheguo (中华人民共和国). Because it really means the Commonwealth of the People’s Splendid Central Civilization. It might sound a little bit grandiose and even pretentious, but why I give that exact translation, it’s because it stresses the fact that China is a country based on culture and freedom, but that freedom is a freedom coming from a true epistemological revolution on a personal level and a collective level and not on license. I don’t know if we have, if you can give me three or four minutes to talk a little bit about, not the biography, because that would be too much, but with the pathway of Mao Zedong, Mao the so-called tyrant.

Matt: So, you know what? I think, yeah, let’s do that. Sure. Why not? Because, frankly, you know, it’s a very loud irony that the reason why a fascist world government did not succeed the first time around when it was tried in the last century was primarily because the brunt of the fight was taken up by the Russians who lost 25 million people or more, and the Chinese who lost over 10 million of their people, which is just astronomically disproportional to the tragic case of the 500,000 or so, loss of American lives, which is terrible.

But proportionally, I mean, something like 85% of the victims were absorbed by Russia under the helm at that time of Stalin. And Mao did most of the heavy lifting. I mean, for anybody who has a problem with what I just said, the history books, the actual records and the evidence showcases that Chiang Kai-Shek was spending most of his time not fighting in any serious fashion with fascist Japanese, who themselves were bankrolled by the same financiers in London and in Wall Street, by the way, who were in the midst of also, trying to take over control of the US against their enemy, Franklin Roosevelt, who had a very different vision of what the postwar age could be, had he lived to see it, based on a US-Russia-China relationship.

So, the fact that these two big forces, China and Russia defeated the New World Order Fascist project the first time and today are being characterized as the two biggest enemies to the West, which, unfortunately, people have to eat some humble pie here. We didn’t really finalize the victory in World War Two. We didn’t really win. We won a battle, but the war wasn’t actually won.

Those same forces I’m talking to people listening here on YouTube or wherever we’re going to stream this. The people who actually made World War Two happen and brought fascism into being and got their asses kicked by really good people from around the world who rejected it, then the West got taken back control under the CIA, MI6, MI5, FBI Gladio, you name it. That’s again, something to look at before we start falling for what Fox News, CNN or Steve Bannon would have us believe, are the enemies of humanity today. So, sure, I think what you’re saying, you’re about saying a word or two about Mao and China and in the deep past that’s appropriate. People should be literate on these things. so go for it.

Quan: Okay. Before I go for it, I would like to make a small comment on Steve Bannon, and their government in exile, in exile of the federal Chinese state.

Matt: New federal, Chinese. Yeah.

Quan: Yeah. It’s so laughable. So, it’s exactly part of that grotesque storytelling, because what you stress, very rightly, is that. It’s true that it’s Russia and China that are probably the biggest nations nowadays capable to resist that new wave of fascism. And it’s because precisely they are rooted in all traditional culture. And I would say that we can vote, we can write encyclopedias on what is our own traditional culture. But I would say that there are three words which summarize that: family, classical education and nation.

I wouldn’t limit myself to family, classical education and nation. And before talking about Mao, I will take 30 seconds to talk about Sun Yat-Sen. Sun Yat-Sen is the father of the Chinese Republic, was born in 1866. He died in March 1925. I just want to mention an event which happened on January 26, 1923. So, the centennial of that event will be in six weeks. What happened on January 26, 1923? It was when Sun Yat-Sen adopted his manifesto or simply Sun Yat-Sen Manifesto. You can go on Wikipedia to check for that. What is amusing and ironical is that it’s written in that manifesto that Marxism is not suitable for the Chinese people. Why? Why? It has been written.

Matt: What is not? What is not suitable?

Quan: Marxism. Marxism. Suitable for the Chinese people and Sun Yat-Sen. Asked to add that line in the manifesto. Because China was very weak at the time and needed some practical help from the soviet Union. So, Sun Yat-Sen made a pact or agreement with Adolf Yoffe, who was the representative of the Soviet Union, so China could get some practical help in order to restore order. Precisely. And peace in China. And why I do mention that is that once again, Chinese civilization is rooted in traditional values.

That’s why Sun Yat-Sen wanted to mention that in the Sun Manifesto. And the practical reason for that Sun Manifesto on January 26, 1923, was the creation of the Whampoa Military Academy on May 1st, 1924. And that Whampoa military academy was probably the very needed tool to restore order and eventually going to the founding of the People’s Republic of China in 1949, because at the time at Whampoa, the future prime minister for Mao was the political commissar for that military academy, or Chiang Kai-Shek. To use the Cantonese pronunciation of his name was the general director for that academy.

Just to mention that what is called nowadays, the Nationalists and the Communists were simply patriots, Chinese patriots working together in order to restore order, wealth and power for the Chinese people. So once again, traditional value: nation, classical education, family, all those, are rooted in that famous Sun Manifesto. And speaking of classical education and Chinese civilization the most, Mao had many influences, of course. I would say that it would be a little bit of a caricature to reduce him to a professor in Xi’an, Shaanxi.

But it’s important to mention Yang Chang. I would like to spell his name because you can find him on Wikipedia. Yang is his family name. Y A N G is his given name. Changji, C H A N G J I. He was born in 1870 and he died in 1920. He was a philosopher and he was probably one of the most brilliant philosophers of his generation in China. And if he did not die at 50, he would have probably created quite major works. But unhappily, he died at 50. But before dying, he had the time to transmit to the young peasant named Mao Zedong, the classical education coming from Chinese civilization. So, to call Mao someone who is not rooted in the deepest of the Chinese culture and the Chinese legacy is completely absurd. And that guy is not very well known to the West, so I insist to name him.

The other guy who is a very great friend of the West and has been, I would say, a major influence on what is China nowadays is the famous Lee Kuan Yew, the founder, the founding father of Singapore. Lee Kuan Yew was born in 1923, the same year of the Sun Manifesto and he died in 2015. And that Lee Kuan Yew met Mao Zedong in May 1976, four months before Mao’s death. You can find images of his visit to Beijing on the Internet. And he also, talked to Deng Xiaoping in 1978 and after that, and he talked a lot to Xi Jinping in the 1990s when Xi Jinping was governor for the eastern coastal province. I think it was Jiangsu before he became president.

Jeff: Zhejiang.

Quan: Zhejiang. Okay. Just south of Jiangsu. So, I would like to mention that. All those guys who had a major influence on what is China today? Were mostly big friends of the West. So, Lee Kuan Yew and Deng Xiaoping created, I would say, the framework. For China to be an enormous Singapore. If you want a little bit of a caricature to say things like that. But I think it’s sometimes simplistic images can have people to think. And I think that Westerners don’t have any problem with Singapore unless I’m mistaken. So, why should they have a problem with China?

Jeff: The fact that Mao Zedong was rooted in classical Chinese classical Chinese education is proven by the fact that his poetry is still considered some of the best poetry in China from the 20th century. And he was also an outstanding and brilliant calligrapher. His brushstroke style is extremely recognizable. And he was a great speechwriter. He was he was a great writer. He was a great teacher. He was, as you know, he was obviously extremely, extremely well educated. And he had his roots. I visited his house where he grew up in Shaoshan, in Hunan. And I visited that whole area. I also, visited the school where he went when he was a little boy, and then where he also taught later in Changsha. I always like to joke that people, you know, Westerners, and they like to sibilate the CCP, SEE-SEE-PEE. They love to sibilate that SEE-SEE. But, you know, he did not have fangs, you know, with blood dripping off them. He did not have green moss between his teeth. He did not have claws instead of fingernails. You have to really dig into his past. And I spent years doing it, to see all of this stuff about him. In the West, he is just one monstrous…as I said, CIA, MI6, what I call the Big Lie Propaganda Machine, he is made horrific. Frank Dikotter’s book, “Mao’s Great Famine”, it just goes on and on and on.

Matt: I mean, I agree. I agree. There’s so much narrative spinning in history and rewriting of history and repetition, which makes it become fact without evidence. You just touched on the big famine. Let’s, is that not what we were being told? Did Mao not oversee a massive destructive famine that wiped out millions of Chinese in the Great Leap Forward?

Jeff: What happened and the Great Leap Forward? What happened was, is that at the same time, in fact, they had in the northern half of the country was basically they had 200-year droughts and the southern half of the country had 200-year floods for two years straight. The West wants to blame collectivization as the boogeyman for causing the hunger. After Mao’s death, the Chinese estimated that approximately 25 million people died during the Great Leap Forward, which sounds like a lot of people, but when you take the number of people that China had at the time, it’s like 2% or something like that.

It’s also, interesting to note that after the Great Leap Forward, before the Great Leap Forward, in the 2,000 years preceding it China had 1,862 famines, something like that, virtually a major famine every year for 2,000 years. Since the Great Leap Forward, China hasn’t had any famines. And I would also like to point out that I have two, well, Matt and Quan know them. Mobo Gao, who grew up in Shandong during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, in a very poor village. And then Dongping Han, who grew up in an even poorer village in Jiangxi, I mean, that’s backwoods, man. That’s like, you know, rural West Virginia for China. He grew up in a village there.

Jeff: They’re both, they’re both about my age. So, they grew up in the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. And they both wrote and said that there was no widespread famine. There was a lot of hunger, but in fact, the collectivization actually saved millions of lives, because they were able to move resources around to keep as much food in front of the people as possible. So, yeah, 25 million, it’s estimated that 25 million people died. But in China’s historical perspective, it’s not much at all. And in fact, it was a drop in the bucket.

So of course, Dikotter and all these other scar writers, scar literature writers, you know, they talk about 75 million, 80 million, etc. But it’s just not true. And I mean, what can I say? Even after he died, they officially said 25, Deng Xiaoping said. They did. They went back. Deng Xiaoping said 25 million people died in the entire country over the three-year period. And by Chinese standards, that’s at that time, was nothing. And since then, they have had not had one famine. So, yeah, it’s just, it’s just extremely exaggerated. And the West’s Dikotter and all these other guys, they took statistics and just exaggerated them and twisted them to get what they wanted. The fact of the matter is, is that…

Matt: Decatur?

Jeff: Frank Dikotter. He’s a Dutch writer who wrote “Mao’s Great Famine” and it is just a pack of lies. I mean, there’s just nothing about it that’s true. Even the photo on the front was taken from a famine in 1947 that Chiang Kai-Shek caused, because he blew up the dam that tens of thousands of hectares of land in Henan. And because he couldn’t find any photos of anybody starving in China during the Great Leap Forward, well, the fact of the matter is, there weren’t really that many who starved. And to be honest with you, most of the people that did die, who starved were over 60 years old, 70 years old, you know, with co-morbidities, this when the life expectancy was still 50 years of age. Now there has been no famine since. So, I don’t take it very seriously.

I mean, the British have killed hundreds of millions of people starving, you know, forcing famines on Ireland and India and Burma, and the French and the Japanese on Vietnam, and Southeast Asia, killing hundreds of millions of people with forced starvation, going back, you know, going back a couple of centuries.

So, we could get into details. The Great Leap Forward was the greatest burst of industrial activity in the history of the human race. It outpaced the Germans, Germany’s industrial revolution, England’s industrial revolution, America’s industrial revolution, and Japan’s industrial revolution. By from anywhere from 10 to 30% greater industrial output in that three-year period than those other industrial revolutions. Even the Brits, it blew them away.

Matt: Are you talking about the before and after images, like before and after this blast of industrial progress? You’re saying that?

Jeff: No, I’m saying during that three-year period, the level of industrialization was anywhere from 10 to 30% greater than the best three years that Japan, the United States, Germany, Britain and America had. Wow. They built 10,000 dams, including nine of the ten largest hydroelectric dams and lakes. The reservoirs, nine of the ten largest in China today were built during the Great Leap Forward. Thousands of kilometers of rivers were restored for flood control. When I was traveling and backpacking in China, in Western China, I saw all these dams and these rivers where people had local, you know, local electricity generated. These dams were still working after 50 years. All I can do is just say it wasn’t because of Mao, it wasn’t because of the policies. It was the fact that they had floods and drought for two years running, and that is what caused all of the hunger.

Matt: I’d like to, here’s a few other things to touch on here, but I guess one thing, Cynthia just gave a class a lecture yesterday, and in it she had a little clip from “The Manchurian Candidate”. And she just noticed in the course of just playing this little segment that right behind for people who know the movie, it’s a John Frankenheimer movie. It’s quite, quite a good film. But there are some…

Jeff: Wonderful movie.

Matt: Definitely, with dishonest, little touches that maybe had a little smell of the CIA in terms of the setting of the stage. And behind in one of the scenes where this P.O.W. from the Korean War is getting brainwashed, you know there’s Pavlovian brainwashing conditioning to try to turn him into an assassin, which is what MK-ULTRA was actually doing, by the way. They were trying to figure out how.

Pattern and then reprogram people so that you could switch their identities in some sort of controlled schizophrenia to be assassins. That is what for people who don’t know the entire Charles Manson cult, the entire thing that the Unabomber came out of Harvard, all of these were CIA MK-ULTRA operations, as was ironically, Reverend Moon, who was a Korean person who described early on his own experience in the early fifties that he called lovingly my brainwashing, who then became the head of a new cult that had all sorts of weird MK-ULTRA connections. So, you had all of these things, right? And Korea, we have to keep in mind, was abused enormously, enormously by the first real unjust war after World War Two, which was the Korean War, which we had no reason going into Korea, where the I mean, as Koreans who live there and who might still be alive, who the aggressor was, do they think of it as the Chinese or do they think of it as the American invaders who used bioweapons and other things? So, anyway, behind one of these movie scenes where you have this POW getting brainwashed, there’s a picture of Mao. A big, big Mao. Kind of like, interesting.

Jeff: Interesting. I don’t remember that. I haven’t watched it in probably 20 or 30 years. That’s really funny.

Matt: We lost. Although we lost Quan here. Let’s see if we can get Quan back. His Internet sometimes clunks out.

Jeff: Is he in Montreal, too, with you?

Matt: He is. He’s in Saint Bruno, which is just outside of Montreal. I’m just going to stop recording. I just had to press pause, because we lost Dr. Le, so hopefully he can jump back in the in the Zoom link. But yeah, I was just going to say. So, they had the painting of Mao Zedong just sort of plastered in the back to give people…

Jeff: I didn’t see that.

Matt: Yes. Incredible. It’s sort of an insidious thing because, I mean, essentially the message is all of these things are happening. But, instead of it being MKULTRA and the CIA, who are actually the ones carrying out these operations on civilians, it’s supposedly the Chinese, which is not actually how any of this unfolded. And the same thing we’ve seen in the basement of, you know, there’s this viral video of a guy who is essentially a paid agent of the CIA throughout the Cold War, working for the CIA inside of Russia, getting his pay, making his career that way. And when the Soviet Union started falling apart, he was out of a job. And as a grifter, he was like, well, I can make money lecturing about the evils of Soviet infiltration and corruption of the West. And some of his videos have really gone very, very viral. I’ve gotten it every week, I get like five or six people who send me the same damn lecture. But it’s like when you listen to what he’s saying, it’s like all of that is kind of true, except he’s giving you all the things that the CIA and Frankfurt School, which were sponsored by the CIA and the Congress for Cultural Freedom, to destroy the deep good traditions of the West.

All of that. He’s just saying it’s the evil Soviets and Russians who are who are doing it. But it’s all deflection. so to this day, I mean, there’s so much work, even to the point that I shared with you, I think, or a friend of a mutual friend had shared with us an email that was going around going viral in the conservative alt media groups, trying to say that China is the world leader of bioterror and absorbed historically Japan’s Unit 731 into China, which then created China’s bio-weapons program that they’ve been using on civilians for the past 80 years.

And it’s like they took the truth and they turn it inside out. Because, the reality that you’ve proven on so many occasions is that Shiro Ishii, the father in many ways of modern bioterrorism, a Japanese psychopath, was indeed not punished after World War Two, was indeed absorbed into the US military industrial complex and went about his days with his whole network reconstituted. Working on these things that he honed his craft on American POWs, Russian P.O.W.s, and especially Chinese civilians during the war. But it wasn’t the Chinese who took him in. so maybe you could say a little something about it was.

Jeff: Well, yeah, it’s just Fort Detrick. I mean, they basically, the Russians kept waiting for the Americans, who promised to send the high-level people. Shiro Ishii from Unit 731 to Russia for the trials. And I’m going to butcher the word. The name Khabarovsk Trials. Anyway, they never sent them, and the Russians had their trials of the 13, or about 13 low hanging fruit from Unit 731, and the big dogs took 8,000 microscope slides, tissue samples, containers of documentation were shipped back to Fort Detrick.

That was what started, that is what launched America’s great foray into bioweapons and bioweapon development. Thanks to him, Shiro Ishii, and there’s even speculation, there’s even pretty good evidence that he was on a ship in Southern Korea during the time in 1951 and 1952 when the Americans were dropping bioweapons on the border between China and North Korea on the Yalu River. He was helping them make the bombs.

So, and just to get back to Mao, I mean, you just have to read and really understand him. He was a teacher. He taught, he was a professional teacher and he was so forgiving to people.

You know, he would, if people would just admit their mistakes, he would always forgive them. He was into reeducation, getting people back on track. It is estimated that out of the millions of stay-behind Japanese fascists, out of the millions of stay behind KMT, fascists, out of the millions of bourgeois Chinese landlords and gentry, after 1949, it is estimated that a total of less than of less than 2% of these classes of people were killed, and most of them were killed by the locals themselves, because they were people who had raped and stolen and ripped people off. This is a tiny fraction compared to most other revolutions.

He was always into reeducation. And in fact, some of his cohorts considered him to be too soft and too nice. And he should have been more out to get rid of all these really bad guys, who had caused so much harm previously. so just. And all you have to do is, if everything that the West says about China, the Mao era of China is true, then why was China, how did the life expectancy in 1949, which is 35 years – 35 years, the life expectancy! When Mao died in 1976, it was 66 years.

The literacy rate in 1949 was 20%. When Mao died in 1976, it was something like 70%. The GDP increased six times. The agriculture production increased three times. Hundreds of thousands of kilometers of telegraph lines, railroads, roads, ports, canals were built during that period. Deng Xiaoping could have not gotten off out of his chair to start his reform and opening up in the 1980s without the amazing foundation of the industrial and infrastructural foundation that the Mao Era created.

Yeah. So, it just goes on and on and on. So, when I just hear, when I read an article about this Epoch Times, and they do some great work, when they do some great stuff about rigged elections and COVID and stuff, but when they like to sibilate that SEE-SEE-PEE, I just roll my shoulders because China started going from strength to strength in 1949 and they haven’t looked back.

Matt: So, there’s a quote just that you had published. I guess it was Pepe Escobar originally published it from something that Mao had written in 1971 where he said, and I quote from your post on Telegram.

In another 50 years, China will be very strong. And by that time the Chinese Communist Party will be 100 years old. America will most likely be very envious and restless, but it doesn’t dare attack China, not even with a single bullet. It will research germ contamination instead. That is very unconscionable. After it finishes with this unconscionable deed, it will self-destruct.

It was very prescient. Yeah. Go on.

Jeff: Yeah, well, I just want to say, “It will self-destruct”. Actually, I went back and read the Chinese. It says, “Imperialism will self-destruct”.

Matt: So, imperialism.

Jeff: That’s important. America will do the… I sent it to the China Writers’ Group today in Word, if you want to go back and find it yeah, but it’s America would do bioweapons, but as a result of that heinous crime it would be imperialism that would self-destruct. That was one correction I made to the translation, I said on Army Day in 1971 which is August 1, but it was actually the founding of the Communist Party on July 1. So, I need to change that from army. I should have said Party, So, it was the founding of the Party on July 1st, 1921. This was 1971. And what’s so really interesting is that quote he said, “In 50 years”, well, 50 years was last year.

Matt: So, no, that’s what I’m saying. It was creepy, prescient. I mean, that is quite the quote.

Jeff: And it came from his Selected Works. And in the Word document I gave you all in the China Writers’ Group. I gave a couple of references. But there are in Chinese. sorry.

Matt: Well, let me just round out one thing too, because it’s very important what you said about especially the rate of progress that pulling people out of poverty and the measurable attributes of longevity, quality of life, powers of productive labor per capita that have all been these are irrefutable data sets that that cannot be ignored when looking at China’s past, especially the 20th century and the infrastructure projects, the thousands and thousands of dams of roads, of hard and soft infrastructure built up in especially the fifties, the sixties before the so called opening up. This is not known. I mean, I didn’t know about this until I think I read your book. Maybe I had an inkling of it and then I started reading Sun Yat-Sen, since international development of China and looked at how that 1921 or 1920, Sun’s program where he outlines something like 80,000 projects in this beautiful book, look at how they began to actually take shape after he dies.

And Franklin Roosevelt had Zhou Enlai representing the Mao networks, as well as Chiang Kai-Shek, ironically, who wasn’t such a great guy, but at the very least, his best virtue was he agreed with Sun Yat-Sen and Mao that we cannot allow China to be broken up. So, there’s this One China commitment. At the very least you had that and both sides agreed when they presented the Sun Yat-Sen program for internationalizing the New Deal at Bretton Woods in 1944.

They presented how these projects could electrify the South and all of the other things the way it has been done so successfully in the US. The American delegation under Franklin Roosevelt’s lead and Henry Wallace endorsed that completely. And we’re happy to make this a driving part of reconstruction. And that didn’t happen. As we know, history was derailed under this Deep State takeover of the US and the backstabbing of a lot of the former allies like Russia and China, who then became known as enemies numero uno or duo, depending on whether you were a liberal or conservative.

There was different messaging catered to either side. Kind of like today, same formula. This is not unique, but despite that, Sun Yat-Sen, whose program was still alive and still shaping the thinking of grand strategists in China, who wanted to end hunger and do these things that had to be done, that are currently coming alive today under the Belt and Road Initiative. So, I just want to say that because Sun Yat-Sen is really the, in my mind, the cultural bridge between East and West, since he’s a man who got his ideas and you could read his writings, his concept was through the study of Abraham Lincoln’s American system of political economy, protectionism, state-backed credit, large scale infrastructure that he studied while he was in Hawaii as a student with the Lincoln Networks there.

And he brought it back and made that the basis of his revolution, his Republican revolution in 1911. so, I mean, people have to realize it’s not like we have these two different opposing cultures that for some, that China is somehow this other thing incompatible with Western thinking and liberty. It’s like, if we could find, rediscover that that actual Western love of liberty and thinking that we once had, that gave birth to the good that we once enjoyed many, many generations ago, we would actually be in a good place right now, and the CIA and MI6 and Soros would not be running our countries.

However, the fact that we have allowed these freaks to actually take control with the City of London, we’ve let all of the enemies of civilization take control of our society, should make us ask the question, do we really have what is this freedom and democracy that we say is the great Western heritage? Where is it? I don’t see it. I see election frauds. I see all sorts of mass popularized stupidification and warmongering. But I don’t actually see this love of freedom, which used to be there, which I, you know, quite a bit of humble pie needs to be eaten.

Jeff: This is the one thing I did want to mention and that I have a lot of conservative friends, I have a lot of deeply religious friends, you know, devoutly religious Christians, Muslims and they are conservative, socially conservative people. And they’re so wrapped up in blaming China and communism for all of the things that they see going wrong in their countries. You know, the violence and the wokeism and the transhumanism and all the identity politics and everything. They just, they have been so brainwashed that they immediately blame China and China’s communism for all, for everything that’s wrong, that ails, that ails their societies, whether they’re English or French or American or Canadian or whatever. That’s a straw man. That is the straw man.

And you know, you and Cynthia call it the City of London, which is on the map. And I call them more, more nebulously, the trillionaire dictators. But, those are the enemies. It’s the City of London and all their spawn and the CIA that works for them. And MI6. That’s who our enemies are. It’s not China. It’s not Russia. It’s not communism. That’s just a massive deflection. And it works beautifully, because no one, all my conservative friends are not talking about it, the Rothschilds and the City of London and the Shiffs and the Rockefellers and the Morgans and the 100 families, who essentially in the West, who essentially control much of the planet. And so, I just would like to tell them out there, it’s not China, it’s not Russia, it’s not North Korea, it’s not Iran, it’s not Venezuela. It’s not Bolivia. It’s not Cuba. It’s Wall Street. The City of London. And the CIA, MI6, Deep State and the military industrial complex. That’s who has completely hijacked the West into this horrific, techno-totalitarian world that they’re pushing us into. They are the enemy.

Matt: Yeah. so let’s do this, let’s round this, we’re rounding out the hour and I think that’s a really nice place to wrap it up and for anybody listening, because there’s a lot of other topics we did not unpack. We’re obviously this was a context setting discussion. I wish Quan was able to be here till the very end, but I think we did what I what I had hoped we would do, which is to set up some historical context, always so desperately lacking in these discussions of present misinformation.

Psyops is, well, what’s the context? You know, you can only talk about a line from a Shakespeare play all you want and dissect it and nit-pick it and have dialogs and debates around what does that line mean? But if you don’t know the scene in which the line occurs or the act in which the line occurs, or the play in which the line occurs, it doesn’t mean anything. We’re wasting our time. And whoever has the most seductive sophistic argument is going to just win based on their prettiness of utilizing flowery language with no regard for truth, so this is good.

What do you what do you say about this, Jeff? And hopefully Quan can join us in the future. How about we do a follow up, one where we can tackle some of the other myths and claims that are out there that that need to be addressed, like the Chinese bribes and uses imperialistic force to subvert nations under debt slavery using debt trap diplomacy, we could tackle the claims of China’s crushing genocide, fighting with Uighur Muslims and Tibetan Buddhists and poor Hong Kong young democracy lovers and Taiwanese lovers of freedom. We could treat all these things in a future discussion. Is that okay?

Jeff: I’d love to. I’m so sorry that Quan got cut off. Maybe he got hit with a blizzard that’s coming your way.

Matt: I think possibly we’re getting hit. We’re getting hit. But I’m going to love to talk about this and we’re going to break down Steve Bannon. We’re going to break down Epoch Times. Falungong is what this Asian Scientology cult is. We’re going to go through the Tiananmen Square story as well. I’d like to debunk that and really address how that was actually a Maidan style color revolutionary attempt like what happened in Ukraine in 2014. Same thing was attempted in 1989. We’re going to debunk that. We’re going to address the police stations. The Chinese police stations that we’ve been told are all over the place.

We’re going to address the question of China. Did China actually release COVID as a China bioweapon to destroy the West and maybe even talk about the Hunter Biden laptop a little bit and whether Biden and Justin Trudeau are really stooges for the big bad guy commies? Okay. We’ll do all of that stuff in the future, presentations or discussions down the line.

And so the last thing I’ll say, Jeff, for people who want to read your books, I would suggest the BIG Red Book on China by Jeff J. Brown is easily findable. Do a Google search, buy it, read it to essential reading to put meat on the bones to a lot of the claims Jeff said, and honestly try to prove him wrong. If you, if you’re, I can imagine a lot of people are probably pissed off by some of what was said today. That’s a natural thing. Prove it wrong. Go to the evidence that Jeff is presenting, see if what he’s saying stands the test of truth. And also, my book I published with Cynthia Chung about three weeks ago is Breaking Free of Anti-China Psyops.

Jeff: Yeah, it’s really excellent.

Matt: Thanks. That’s another one. Read it, you can get it on our Canadian Patriots org site, you know it’s 75 pages, it’s a smooth read. Try to disprove us and come back to us with your thoughts.

Jeff: And also, I will point out that the three China Trilogy books are now also audio books, I’ve got them on Google audio books. So yeah, Epub/Apple e-book, Amazon Kindle, and also, audiobooks on Google. So, there’s every which way to access them.

Matt: Good. Yeah.

Jeff: Thank you for having me on. Thanks for the promotion and you know, really, I love what you and Cynthia do, in fact. In fact, right here next to me (showing the book to the audience). And it’s just, I have her new book which I’m going to read and interview her about. I just got it. And we both have of course, the whole China Writers’ Group. We just have some wonderful dialog and let’s keep it up, get after it, “On with the good fight”!

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year. And let’s try to get together after the New Year.

Matt: Absolutely. All right. Take care. Bye.

Jeff: Bye bye.


Do yourself, your friends, family and colleagues a favor, to make sure all of you are Sino-smart: 

Google ebooks (Epub) and audiobooks:

44 Days Backpacking in China: The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass

China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations

BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution

Amazon print and ebooks (Kindle):

44 Days Backpacking in China: The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass

China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations

BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution

Author page:

Praise for The China Trilogy:


Why and How China works: With a Mirror to Our Own History



JEFF J. BROWN, Editor, China Rising, and Senior Editor & China Correspondent, Dispatch from Beijing, The Greanville Post

Jeff J. Brown is a geopolitical analyst, journalist, lecturer and the author of The China Trilogy. It consists of 44 Days Backpacking in China – The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass (2013); Punto Press released China Rising – Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations (2016); and BIG Red Book on China (2020). As well, he published a textbook, Doctor WriteRead’s Treasure Trove to Great English (2015). Jeff is a Senior Editor & China Correspondent for The Greanville Post, where he keeps a column, Dispatch from Beijing and is a Global Opinion Leader at 21st Century. He also writes a column for The Saker, called the Moscow-Beijing Express. Jeff writes, interviews and podcasts on his own program, China Rising Radio Sinoland, which is also available on YouTubeStitcher Radio, iTunes, Ivoox and RUvid. Guests have included Ramsey Clark, James Bradley, Moti Nissani, Godfree Roberts, Hiroyuki Hamada, The Saker and many others. [/su_spoiler]

Jeff can be reached at China Rising, je**@br***********.com, Facebook, Twitter, Wechat (+86-19806711824/Mr_Professor_Brown, and Line/Signal/Telegram/Whatsapp: +33-612458821.

Read it in your language • Lealo en su idioma • Lisez-le dans votre langue • Lies es in deniner Sprache • Прочитайте это на вашем языке • 用你的语言阅读



Wechat group: search the phone number +8619806711824 or my ID, Mr_Professor_Brown, friend request and ask Jeff to join the China Rising Radio Sinoland Wechat group. He will add you as a member, so you can join in the ongoing discussion.

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