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By Jeff J. Brown
Sixteen years on the streets, living and working with the people of China, Jeff
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Original interview April 2023
English – https://ukraina.ru/20230428/1045769931.html
Russian – https://ukraina.ru/20230428/1045767605.html
Interview
What does Xi Jinping’s conversation with Zelensky mean? What is the meaning of Ambassador Lu Shaye’s words about Crimea? Can France and China become mediators in negotiations on Ukraine?
Jeff J. Brown, a French-American writer, publicist, and host of the podcast China Rising Radio Sinoland, told Ukraina.ru in an exclusive interview.
— Chinese President Xi Jinping had a telephone conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. The phone conversation took place at the initiative of the Ukrainian side, the media reported. Why did Zelensky call Xi? Does it mean that Kiev wants peace negotiations?
— Zelensky called Xi because he knows that the war in Ukraine is not going according to the West’s plans, and Russia is winning across the board.
China did publish a 12-point peace plan that neither Washington or Moscow would accept, but diplomacy is all about potential and possibilities. For Xi, he had nothing to lose. Zelensky had the international prestige to rub shoulders with China, giving him some credibility around the world.
Zelensky controls nothing. He is a U.S. puppet. Thus, it is unlikely that peace will break out, as a result of this phone call.
— What are China’s interests in Ukraine?
— China before the fall of the Soviet Union, of course, Ukraine was a Soviet Republic and China before 1990 had a huge amount of cooperation with Ukraine. They had a massive exchange. Ukraine was providing machine parts, machines, tools, motors, cranes, equipment. We can go back into 1950s, how important Ukraine was to China.
Even after fall of the Soviet Union in 1990, they continued and kept right on going, even after the start of the NATO-Russia war in 2014, with Maidan, they continued to cooperate. China was sending technology, еverything that they’re good at, аnd then the Ukraine was sending grain, machinery, industrial tools and equipment to China. In sum, they’ve had a long, fruitful relationship together going back decades.
— At the end of February, the head of the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) blamed China for its intention to supply Russia with weapons, ammunition and drones. The Chinese do have good battle tanks. Could China, because of retaliation against U.S. pressure on Chinese Taiwan, arm Russia’s army to win the conflict in Ukraine?
— China is already providing Russia with dual purpose equipment and technology, which Russia can use in its war with NATO in Ukraine.
Nevertheless, China will not openly provide tanks, planes, missiles and offensive materiel, unless it meant Russia was going to lose without it.
— Why?
— Because, it would put China in a very difficult diplomatic position. It’s pretty obvious that NATO is preparing to go to war with China over Taiwan, and Beijing wants to delay this as long as possible. This is due to the fact that China is all about its people. The Chinese government is all about development, infrastructure, prosperity, harmony, stability and peace for the citizens. They know NATO’s coming, but if they can put it off for five or ten years, so much the better.
If China came out, openly came out and was supporting Russia with real hard, war materiel, that would give NATO a justification to accelerate its efforts to drag China into a war over Taiwan. Therefore, in the meantime, they’re going to continue to provide Russia with dual purpose equipment and materiel.
It’s just like China would do the same thing with North Korea. If North Korea’s existence was threatened, Beijing would openly provide materiel to save Korea, because they don’t want North Korea to disappear. Many people do not know they actually have a mutual defense treaty. So, if anybody goes to war with China, they’re going to go to war with North Korea, because they’ve had a mutual defense treaty since 1960 and it’s still in effect.
China is trying to delay Taiwan. That’s why they came out with their 12-point plan for peace in Ukraine. It’s totally unworkable. Russia’s not going to accept what China proposed and definitely the nutjobs, the psychopaths in London and Washington are not going to accept what the Chinese proposed, because they want Total War, they want to destroy Russia. That’s the goal. Now, they can’t back out, so they’re doubling down and trying to exhaust Russia. But it’s not going to work. It didn’t work in World War Two. The Nazis couldn’t tire, couldn’t wear out the Russians in World War Two. And I don’t think NATO’s going to wear the Russians out in Ukraine.
— Can China become a back-up and support for Russia?
— They are supporting Russia. They are flaunting every one of the sanctions that West has imposed, the thousands and thousands of sanctions that the West is imposing on Russia. Sino-Russian trade is booming. They’re going to go way past $200 billion in trade for 2023. They’re trading in rubles, they’re trading in RMB and they’re working hand-in-hand with each other.
I can almost guarantee you that China is providing every amount of human intelligence, signal intelligence, electronic intelligence from their Ministry of State Security, the Ministry of Defense and the People’s Liberation Army, anything that they can pick up, satellite intelligence to help Russia in Ukraine. They are providing all of that and China has just as good of intelligence networks as Russia does. So that’s massive for Russia to have all of that information from China to help them, and there’s nothing that the West can do about it or even prove that they’re doing it.
So, of course China is supporting Russia. China’s buying Russian gas. Everything that the Europeans are not buying, China is. China’s buying gas and India’s buying the oil. Everything has just exploded in the face of NATO. I don’t think they believed India and the rest of the world would just totally ignore them either. They’re so delusional and they’re so psychopathic.
They actually thought that countries like India, Brazil, South Africa, the Philippines and all of these other countries would actually line up and sanction Russia. Of course not, they’re doing business like never before. So, it’s just been a complete disaster for everybody but Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Belarus and the rest of the Global Majority. It’s just been a disaster. And I love it.
— China’s Ambassador to France, Lu Shaye said on April 21 that Crimea was originally Russian, and that Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine. Because of this, a scandal in the West happened. The Chinese embassy in France removed the ambassador’s interview. However, the ambassador told everyone the well-known truth about Crimea. Why then did Europeans become excited, so much emotion about it? Why is the West angry because of it? Does this mean that the EU and the U.S. are just looking for a reason to pick on China?
— First, we have to remember that China has 5,000 years of diplomatic history. They have been dealing with foreigners for five millennia, in their immediate sphere of influence in Asia, and with the rest of the world into the colonial age, starting in the 15th century. So, they know what they’re doing. This ambassador to Paris, Mr. Lu Shaye is no accident. He is playing a very important role for China to destabilize the West.
This is classic White Hat, Black Hat diplomacy. Lu is the Black Hat. Then the Ministry of Foreign Affairs comes out and says: Oh no, that’s not really true – the White Hat. And intentionally, they left his speech on his official WeChat channel, long enough, so that everybody picked it up.
He was interviewed by LCI in France, and whereupon it’s been translated into English and is all over the world. So, he’s the Black Hat. He reminds me a lot of Dmitri Medvedev, the former president of Russia, who is the country’s Black Hat and a very, very good one. He is outstanding playing the Black Hat for the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. His platform is now as a member of the Russia’s Security Council.
US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken often plays the Black Hat.
The former spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Zhao Lijian, the celebrated Wolf Warrior, was an outstanding Black Hat. His Twitter account is still smoking, with almost two million followers.
Yet that does not mean that what Mr. Lu said was not true. In fact, what anti-imperial Black Hats usually do is tell the truth. On the opposite side, it’s the West that cannot handle the truth. Of course, Crimea has been a part of Russia going back hundreds of years. Of course, Khrushchev cynically tacked Crimea on to Ukraine after he came into power. Of course, he was Ukrainian. Of course, we know the Baltic states want to pretend that they were “occupied” by the Soviet Union for 50 years. They can play act whatever they want, but that does not mean that it’s true.
Also, it’s not an accident that this is coming from the Chinese ambassador in France. Mr. Lu is, of course, the ambassador in France. And he is following up with French President Emmanuel Macron’s recent visit to Beijing, where Macron was wined, dined and flattered by President Xi Jinping, who gave him the royal treatment. Six hours of tête-à-tête discussions with Xi clearly rubbed off on him.
Macron came back and talked about how Europe should not get involved in Taiwan, and was talking about how Europe should not be a vassal of the United States. And then Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission immediately came out; Josep Borrell, the Foreign Minister of Europe came out and said it’s not true. In desperation, they hastily sent a team of French legislators to go to Taiwan to show that it was not true.
Thus, the fact that they asked Lu to do this in France, as a follow-up to Macron’s statements is not a coincidence. This was done on purpose to reinforce what Macron said, again to destabilize and roil the waters in the West. This is brilliant diplomacy. This is as good as it gets.
I think maybe the only other Chinese leader who was better at it than what’s happening right now is Chairman Mao Zedong. He was the ultimate, charismatic Wolf Warrior. Again, he accessed 5,000 years of, and millions of pages of Chinese imperial court documents, looking for clues and how to deal with these Western imperialists.
— The last edition (on April 19) of the China Rising Radio Sinoland podcast, you touched on the subject of the U.S. government’s bloody terrorism (https://chinarising.puntopress.com/2023/04/19/updated-never-forget-the-us-governments-bloody-terrorism-in-oklahoma-city-28-years-ago-today-its-where-todays-headlines-began-parts-1-and-2-china-rising-radio-sinoland-230419/). Are the Europeans and Americans aware of what the U.S. and NATO are fighting against, with Russia in Ukraine? Do they understand that the war began in 2014, that Ukraine’s failure to implement the Minsk agreements and that the support of leading Western countries for Ukraine led to this conflict?
— Of course, the United States knows exactly what’s going on. It was the United States that sent Department of State’s Victoria Nuland, who is a rabid, anti-communist, Russophobic psychopath. She was the one who was in Ukraine in 2014, setting up the color revolution to depose Yanukovich. And later, of course, Poroshenko and then Zelensky. So, they were the ones who started the Ukrainian war in 2014 with Maidan and the color revolution there.
NATO has already admitted – when you’re the imperial empire you can brag about being Globocop. The global policeman. A NATO general has even admitted that before 2014, they began to plan on this confrontation with Russia, using Ukraine as a proxy country. Therefore, this has been going on for a long time. The West knows exactly what it’s doing.
A lot of people may want to criticize Vladimir Putin for waiting so long. There’s a lot of people are saying, maybe Russia should have gone in, as soon as Donetsk and Lugansk declared independence from the rest of the Ukraine. Maybe Russia should have gone in at that point, which in retrospect, Putin has alluded to. Yet, I think Vladimir Putin and his team really held out hope they might be able to diplomatically work with the West, hoping to still work with the West on the long term.
That now is clearly over. The idea of trying to cooperate with Western hegemony is finished
.The United States and NATO got what they wanted, which is a war between them and Russia, using Ukraine as a proxy territory. The problem for the United States and NATO is that it has gone terribly wrong for them. Everything that they expected has not panned out: Russia would run out of missiles in two weeks. Russian soldiers would be weak and ineffective. And for people like you and me who know Russian history, it’s laughable, because look what Russia did to in Europe in World War Two. They ground the Nazi Wehrmacht into dog food, defeating Nazi Germany.
Not to mention a little-known historical event in Asia. It was the Russians, the Soviets who destroyed Japan’s greatest army in Manchuria. This is real reason that Japan abdicated – when the Russians destroyed their greatest army in Manchuria. Eighty-thousand Japanese were slaughtered by the Russians in ten days at the end of World War Two. It was not the US atomic bombs of the Hiroshima — Nagasaki. It was the Russians threatening to land on the islands of Japan that caused their emperor to surrender.
Therefore, it’s amazing the West actually thought Russia’s soldiers were going to be weak and ineffective. They thought the economy would tank, they thought that the ruble would spiral out of control, and they thought that there would be protests against Vladimir Putin and the current government.
Everything that NATO expected has literally blown up in their faces. Russia’s foreign reserves are the highest they’ve ever been. Inflation is 3%. The ruble is hanging in there. It’s doing okay. Russia is launching tens of thousands of shells into Ukraine every day. They have hypersonic missiles. They’ve got hypergliding missiles, like the Kinzhal and others. It’s a disaster for the West.
What happened in Moscow in March, when Xi and Putin met is, they essentially agreed that it’s over. They are going to work together to bring NATO to its knees, and bring an end to 500 years of imperial, capitalist rape, pillage, plunder and genocide that the West has сommitted across the planet, since the 15th century.
Thus, I’m very optimistic about the future. I think that with China and Russia working hand in hand, we can hopefully see an end to the “rules-based order” what the West likes to euphemistically call it, which is basically American hegemony.
— How can China and France, from your point of view, help resolve and help the Ukrainian conflict peacefully?
— France can’t do much. People don’t understand that now there is no national sovereignty left in the European Union, with the 2009 Lisbon Treaty. There is no more national governance in Europe. All decisions are now made in Brussels, with the European Commission. Even more importantly, above the European Commission is a very secretive group that almost nobody knows about, called the Eurogroup. It is basically the central banks of Europe working hand-in-hand with the Federal Reserve and Wall Street in the United States, the Bank of England and the City of London in Britain, as well as NATO in Brussels, they’re the dictatorial oligarchy controlling Europe.
Macron can look good, maybe he wanted to look Gaullist, be like De Gaulle, like he’s trying to stand up to the Americans. But at the end of the day, he’s going to be handed his script and he’s going to read it. And it’s coming from the Eurogroup, via the European Commission. Thus, there’s nothing really anything France can do to help the with peace in Ukraine.
Now, that does not mean China will not take what happened with Macron, and use it as a weak link to try to diplomatically destabilize the West. Obviously, China and Russia have completely given up on the United States. Be that as it may, both China and Russia would like to think that one day, they might be able to pull Europe away from the US, to stop being the completely prostituted vassal that it is now.
In any case, to break free from Washington/Federal Reserve/Wall Street, Bank of England/City of London, NATO and the Eurogroup – that’s not going to happen unless there’s a Frexit, meaning France leaving the EU, along with the Exits of Spain, Italy and Germany. It would take the dissolution of the European Union for that to happen, and I do not see that happening for a long, long time.
###
Do yourself, your friends, family and colleagues a favor, to make sure all of you are Sino-smart:
Google ebooks (Epub) and audiobooks:
44 Days Backpacking in China: The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=YBKHEAAAQBAJ
https://play.google.com/store/audiobooks/details?id=AQAAAECCkQXRlM
China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=YNmLEAAAQBAJ
https://play.google.com/store/audiobooks/details?id=AQAAAECCfHo86M
BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution
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https://play.google.com/store/audiobooks/details?id=AQAAAECCfHo86M
Amazon print and ebooks (Kindle):
44 Days Backpacking in China: The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1484939999/
China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations
https://www.amazon.com/China-Rising-Capitalist-Socialist-Destinations/dp/0996487042
BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution
https://www.amazon.com/BIG-Red-Book-China/dp/1673322719/
Author page:
https://www.amazon.com/Mr.-Jeff-J.-Brown/e/B00TX0TDDI
Praise for The China Trilogy:
Why and How China works: With a Mirror to Our Own History
JEFF J. BROWN, Editor, China Rising, and Senior Editor & China Correspondent, Dispatch from Beijing, The Greanville Post
Jeff J. Brown is a geopolitical analyst, journalist, lecturer and the author of The China Trilogy. It consists of 44 Days Backpacking in China – The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass (2013); Punto Press released China Rising – Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations (2016); and BIG Red Book on China (2020). As well, he published a textbook, Doctor WriteRead’s Treasure Trove to Great English (2015). Jeff is a Senior Editor & China Correspondent for The Greanville Post, where he keeps a column, Dispatch from Beijing and is a Global Opinion Leader at 21st Century. He also writes a column for The Saker, called the Moscow-Beijing Express. Jeff writes, interviews and podcasts on his own program, China Rising Radio Sinoland, which is also available on YouTube, Stitcher Radio, iTunes, Ivoox and RUvid. Guests have included Ramsey Clark, James Bradley, Moti Nissani, Godfree Roberts, Hiroyuki Hamada, The Saker and many others. [/su_spoiler]
Jeff can be reached at China Rising, je**@br***********.com, Facebook, Twitter, Wechat (+86-19806711824/Mr_Professor_Brown, and Line/Signal/Telegram/Whatsapp: +33-612458821.
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